6 ms·

Ford reveals breakthrough process for lower priced EVs

37 points by coloneltcb 1y ago

philipallstar 1y ago
> The next-gen “universal” EV platform is the product of Ford’s Silicon Valley-based skunkworks team helmed by Alan Clarke, executive director of advanced EV production and a 12-year veteran of Tesla. Whatever happens to Tesla the company, its impact on the world's vehicles is indelible.
- torium 1y ago
  On the other hand, history is littered with car companies that left an indelible impact in the car industry and then went bankrupt.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Yep. Just because you a have a good idea, doesn't mean you can turn it into a profitable business. The graveyard is full of companies that had good ideas. Cars are a low margin hardware business that's also a highly regulated one where mistakes are expensive. Tough to crack.
  - philipallstar 1y ago
    It's extremely difficult to spend loads of money on R&D without letting your competitors get most of the value of it for nothing.
- snowparrot 1y ago
  Except VW and Stellantis do this since many years... Offer by Stellantis is 20k EUR (below 30k USD) and EU cars have higher security standards by regulation. https://www.motor1.com/news/691992/stellantis-low-cost-car-platform/ https://www.motor1.com/news/691992/stellantis-low-cost-car-p...
  - plqbfbv 1y ago
    > Except VW and Stellantis do this since many years... VW is approaching comparable Tesla EV features now, after 10 years in denial and 7 playing catch-up (and while the hardware has improved greatly, the software has improved too but still can't compare to Tesla's). Stellantis is not really faring that well either. The article opened with "Ford is comparing this to its Model T moment". Then I read the second paragraph and I thought: "oh, Ford is having its Model T-esla moment". I still recall after >7y the Sandy Munro Tesla's teardown, who was amazed with how much more efficient the wiring, number of components etc were compared to regular industry (I believe this is an updated comparison slide of it: https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/comparing-tesla-ford-vws-electrical-architectures-source-munro-live.png https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/comparing-tesla-ford-vw... ). And the third paragraph delivered... It's an ex-Tesla guy driving this. I share the hate for the guy in charge, but I agree with the parent comment.
qgin 1y ago
Is this different than what GM has been doing with Ultium?
emorning3 1y ago
[dead]
readthenotes1 1y ago
The silicon valley guy spent a ton of money on chairs and avocado toast and probably said hey let's just do what slate's doing https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a64580484/slate-truck-ev-pickup-truck-suv/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a64580484/slate-truck-ev-p...
ARob109 1y ago
/s the breakthrough: A basic car with that happens to have EV power train. The anti-secret: EV power train that accelerated 0-60 in 1s and all the software engineering going into a software defined, internet connected autonomous vehicle with subscription services and such that balloon the costs of a modern vehicle?
daft_pink 1y ago
Reality is that EV vehicle costs are heavily dependent on battery material prices and any breakthrough process would either use cheaper minerals or reduce the price of existing minerals. ICE engines are made from widely available steel and aluminum and lots of labor and factories that build the complex mechanisms involved. EV’s require much less labor but the cost is mostly driven by the cost of minerals in the battery packs that is very expensive. Maybe we should have expanding mining and made the underlying minerals much cheaper as opposed to subsidizing each individual vehicle.
- killingtime74 1y ago
  Sodium ion batteries already only use abundant minerals and no lithium. Already a production car made with this in china. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery
  - Kirby64 1y ago
    Sodium ion batteries have, at least currently, worse energy density than even LFP batteries. Also, current costs of sodium batteries are quite high. The latter will change over time of course, but energy density remains a problem. Nobody really wants a car that only goes 150mi, especially as their only car.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  LFP batteries are made from cheap, widely available elements. Lithium is quite common in the Earth's crust, more common than some of the trace components of high grade steel, like molybdenum. And they use a lot less energy to refine than Aluminum does.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  The battery in this new truck is worth less than $3000, today. I don't think Ford can build an engine and a transmission for under $3K. The difference will be even more stark in 2027.
jauntywundrkind 1y ago
Is this Fords first multi-chassis skateboard design? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skateboard_(automotive_platform)#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skateboard_(automotive_platfor... That article could definitely use some history and or dates. GM AUTOnomy (2002) for example feels like the first time I really recall seeing this design suggested. https://www.adrianchernoff.com/project/autonomy/ https://www.adrianchernoff.com/project/autonomy/
_xerces_ 1y ago
Unfortunately, the trend seems to be that as manufacturability of a product increases, repairability decreases. A simple example is the heavy use of fragile, easily broken clips to hold on parts that used to be held on with bolts and screws.
kcplate 1y ago
2025 version of the Chrysler K car…

37 points by coloneltcb 1y ago

> The next-gen “universal” EV platform is the product of Ford’s Silicon Valley-based skunkworks team helmed by Alan Clarke, executive director of advanced EV production and a 12-year veteran of Tesla. Whatever happens to Tesla the company, its impact on the world's vehicles is indelible.

torium 1y ago
On the other hand, history is littered with car companies that left an indelible impact in the car industry and then went bankrupt.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Yep. Just because you a have a good idea, doesn't mean you can turn it into a profitable business. The graveyard is full of companies that had good ideas. Cars are a low margin hardware business that's also a highly regulated one where mistakes are expensive. Tough to crack.
- philipallstar 1y ago
  It's extremely difficult to spend loads of money on R&D without letting your competitors get most of the value of it for nothing.
snowparrot 1y ago
Except VW and Stellantis do this since many years... Offer by Stellantis is 20k EUR (below 30k USD) and EU cars have higher security standards by regulation. https://www.motor1.com/news/691992/stellantis-low-cost-car-platform/ https://www.motor1.com/news/691992/stellantis-low-cost-car-p...
- plqbfbv 1y ago
  > Except VW and Stellantis do this since many years... VW is approaching comparable Tesla EV features now, after 10 years in denial and 7 playing catch-up (and while the hardware has improved greatly, the software has improved too but still can't compare to Tesla's). Stellantis is not really faring that well either. The article opened with "Ford is comparing this to its Model T moment". Then I read the second paragraph and I thought: "oh, Ford is having its Model T-esla moment". I still recall after >7y the Sandy Munro Tesla's teardown, who was amazed with how much more efficient the wiring, number of components etc were compared to regular industry (I believe this is an updated comparison slide of it: https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/comparing-tesla-ford-vws-electrical-architectures-source-munro-live.png https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/comparing-tesla-ford-vw... ). And the third paragraph delivered... It's an ex-Tesla guy driving this. I share the hate for the guy in charge, but I agree with the parent comment.

qgin 1y ago

Is this different than what GM has been doing with Ultium?

emorning3 1y ago

[dead]

readthenotes1 1y ago

The silicon valley guy spent a ton of money on chairs and avocado toast and probably said hey let's just do what slate's doing https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a64580484/slate-truck-ev-pickup-truck-suv/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a64580484/slate-truck-ev-p...

ARob109 1y ago

/s the breakthrough: A basic car with that happens to have EV power train. The anti-secret: EV power train that accelerated 0-60 in 1s and all the software engineering going into a software defined, internet connected autonomous vehicle with subscription services and such that balloon the costs of a modern vehicle?

daft_pink 1y ago

Reality is that EV vehicle costs are heavily dependent on battery material prices and any breakthrough process would either use cheaper minerals or reduce the price of existing minerals. ICE engines are made from widely available steel and aluminum and lots of labor and factories that build the complex mechanisms involved. EV’s require much less labor but the cost is mostly driven by the cost of minerals in the battery packs that is very expensive. Maybe we should have expanding mining and made the underlying minerals much cheaper as opposed to subsidizing each individual vehicle.

killingtime74 1y ago
Sodium ion batteries already only use abundant minerals and no lithium. Already a production car made with this in china. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery
- Kirby64 1y ago
  Sodium ion batteries have, at least currently, worse energy density than even LFP batteries. Also, current costs of sodium batteries are quite high. The latter will change over time of course, but energy density remains a problem. Nobody really wants a car that only goes 150mi, especially as their only car.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
LFP batteries are made from cheap, widely available elements. Lithium is quite common in the Earth's crust, more common than some of the trace components of high grade steel, like molybdenum. And they use a lot less energy to refine than Aluminum does.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
The battery in this new truck is worth less than $3000, today. I don't think Ford can build an engine and a transmission for under $3K. The difference will be even more stark in 2027.

jauntywundrkind 1y ago

Is this Fords first multi-chassis skateboard design? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skateboard_(automotive_platform)#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skateboard_(automotive_platfor... That article could definitely use some history and or dates. GM AUTOnomy (2002) for example feels like the first time I really recall seeing this design suggested. https://www.adrianchernoff.com/project/autonomy/ https://www.adrianchernoff.com/project/autonomy/

_xerces_ 1y ago

Unfortunately, the trend seems to be that as manufacturability of a product increases, repairability decreases. A simple example is the heavy use of fragile, easily broken clips to hold on parts that used to be held on with bolts and screws.

kcplate 1y ago

2025 version of the Chrysler K car…