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I am so much not willing to listen to what heritage specifically has to say on the topic. Could you pick less hypocritical and less eager to lie resources to "d

by watwut 1y ago

I am so much not willing to listen to what heritage specifically has to say on the topic. Could you pick less hypocritical and less eager to lie resources to "definitely not pick up on left totally both side"? Heritage foundation literally where Project 2025 was created and published. Also, I definitely love the track record of "the measure of free speech is your willingness to defend nazi and never use words to support the left": > To be sure, the ACLU will still occasionally take a high profile case involving a Nazi or Klan member who has been denied freedom of speech, though there are now some on the board who would oppose supporting such right-wing extremists. But the core mission of the ACLU — and its financial priority — is to promote its left-wing agenda in litigation, in public commentary and, now, in elections. If you want to know the reason for this shift, [...] Yeah, their litmus test is always willingness to defend nazi AND not have left like opinions. If you are aligned with right wing specifically, you are fine. Just dont you dare to have left like opinions. Total neutral.

echelon 1y ago
Sure, here are some liberal leaning sources saying things you might not like if you believe these things, including vile things said by extremist groups, should be censored: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://archive.is/TpU8Q https://archive.is/TpU8Q https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/31/how-the-resurgence-of-white-supremacy-in-the-us-sparked-a-war-over-free-speech-aclu-charlottesville https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/31/how-the-resurge... Please note: I 100% abhor white supremacy and any kind of racism. But you can and should defend the right to free speech without agreeing with that speech. We need to support the speech of all groups we detest - baby eaters, satanists, polygamists, racists, sexists, murderers, capitalists, Marxists, televangelists, etc. - in order to champion free speech for all. Once that freedom disappears, it won't come back. Then the systems of censorship and oppression will be used against us. I'm LGBT. I know what it was like to grow up when my "lifestyle" was taboo. I know how easily and quickly society can change. I don't want to ever have my freedom removed or to be put into a box. If you're uneasy about this, remember that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from judgement. If you say something disgusting, you'll lose credibility and business from most people. Crowds already effectively censor. But we don't need the government or public squares becoming thought police and building automated systems to muzzle and detain us. Once those systems get built, we're done for.
- cindyllm 1y ago
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- watwut 1y ago
  > We need to support the speech of all groups we detest - baby eaters, satanists, polygamists, racists, sexists, murderers, capitalists, Marxists, televangelists, etc. - in order to champion free speech for all. Except that, in practice the defense of self styled free speech advocates did not extended to left, gay, radical feminists, progressives anyone not far right. In what world is NY times left leaning. > If you're uneasy about this, remember that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from judgement. Somehow that part did applied to only selected groups. Criticising right and conservatives was treated as grave danger to free speech by the self styled free speech advocates. The big crisis of free speech is never about speech rights of anyone left of center. Literally even now.
  - echelon 1y ago
    > Except that, in practice the defense of self styled free speech advocates did not extended to left, gay, radical feminists, progressives anyone not far right. It absolutely has. LGBT rights: https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-2025 https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-202... NAMBLA: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-statement-defending-free-speech-unpopular-organizations https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-statement-defending... HIV: https://www.aclu.org/cases/outmemphis-v-lee https://www.aclu.org/cases/outmemphis-v-lee BLM: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/in-a-major-win-for-our-right-to-protest-federal-court-rules-in-favor-of-prominent-civil-rights-activist https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/in-a-major-win-for-our-r... Women's rights: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/supreme-court-rejects-appeal-from-public-charter-school-seeking-permission-to-violate-students-constitutional-rights https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/supreme-court-rejects-ap...
    - watwut 1y ago
      That is all aclu which is (per articles posted in this thread) too much left and therefore not free speech by definition. The hill article even articulated exactly that position openly.

by watwut 1y ago

echelon 1y ago

Sure, here are some liberal leaning sources saying things you might not like if you believe these things, including vile things said by extremist groups, should be censored: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://archive.is/TpU8Q https://archive.is/TpU8Q https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/31/how-the-resurgence-of-white-supremacy-in-the-us-sparked-a-war-over-free-speech-aclu-charlottesville https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/31/how-the-resurge... Please note: I 100% abhor white supremacy and any kind of racism. But you can and should defend the right to free speech without agreeing with that speech. We need to support the speech of all groups we detest - baby eaters, satanists, polygamists, racists, sexists, murderers, capitalists, Marxists, televangelists, etc. - in order to champion free speech for all. Once that freedom disappears, it won't come back. Then the systems of censorship and oppression will be used against us. I'm LGBT. I know what it was like to grow up when my "lifestyle" was taboo. I know how easily and quickly society can change. I don't want to ever have my freedom removed or to be put into a box. If you're uneasy about this, remember that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from judgement. If you say something disgusting, you'll lose credibility and business from most people. Crowds already effectively censor. But we don't need the government or public squares becoming thought police and building automated systems to muzzle and detain us. Once those systems get built, we're done for.

cindyllm 1y ago
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watwut 1y ago
> We need to support the speech of all groups we detest - baby eaters, satanists, polygamists, racists, sexists, murderers, capitalists, Marxists, televangelists, etc. - in order to champion free speech for all. Except that, in practice the defense of self styled free speech advocates did not extended to left, gay, radical feminists, progressives anyone not far right. In what world is NY times left leaning. > If you're uneasy about this, remember that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from judgement. Somehow that part did applied to only selected groups. Criticising right and conservatives was treated as grave danger to free speech by the self styled free speech advocates. The big crisis of free speech is never about speech rights of anyone left of center. Literally even now.
- echelon 1y ago
  > Except that, in practice the defense of self styled free speech advocates did not extended to left, gay, radical feminists, progressives anyone not far right. It absolutely has. LGBT rights: https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-2025 https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-202... NAMBLA: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-statement-defending-free-speech-unpopular-organizations https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-statement-defending... HIV: https://www.aclu.org/cases/outmemphis-v-lee https://www.aclu.org/cases/outmemphis-v-lee BLM: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/in-a-major-win-for-our-right-to-protest-federal-court-rules-in-favor-of-prominent-civil-rights-activist https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/in-a-major-win-for-our-r... Women's rights: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/supreme-court-rejects-appeal-from-public-charter-school-seeking-permission-to-violate-students-constitutional-rights https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/supreme-court-rejects-ap...
  - watwut 1y ago
    That is all aclu which is (per articles posted in this thread) too much left and therefore not free speech by definition. The hill article even articulated exactly that position openly.