3 ms·

You might need security updates for security systems, like immobilisers, keyless entry etc.

by pabs3 1y ago

fc417fc802 1y ago
I'm happy to manually apply updates for my immobilizer as necessary. Keyless entry is already broken (recent front page) and can't be fixed via update AFAIK at least without leaving behind all current fobs. Given that it's still using a proprietary encryption scheme from the mid 80s it doesn't seem the manufacturers were particularly concerned about security to begin with.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
M95D 1y ago
The only security update for those is removal. Immobilizers via RFID chip were never broken AFAIK.
- pabs3 1y ago
  Couldn't RFID relay work against those?
  - M95D 1y ago
    Not likely, because they're extremely short range (one centimeter or so). The attacker would need to turn the duplicate key in the ignition exactly at the time the other attacker bumps into the owner, exactly on the correct side where the pocket with the key is, and precisely match the position of the key in the pocket with the antenna in the attacker's pocket/bag/whatever. And if the key is in a handbag, then good luck trying to get a reader close to it. But then, how would they get a duplicate of the ignition key?
    - pabs3 1y ago
      Would a stronger signal from the attacker increase that distance? Or one of these: https://blog.nuoplanet.com/en/long-range-rfid-readers https://blog.nuoplanet.com/en/long-range-rfid-readers Since at least 2009 it has been possible to duplicate keys using photography, a hobbyist replicated the work in 2018. So take a photo when the keys are out somewhere; on a table, or when unlocking the car. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/10/reproducing_key.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/10/reproducing_k... https://hackaday.com/2009/09/22/photographic-key-duplication/ https://hackaday.com/2009/09/22/photographic-key-duplication... https://markhedleyjones.com/projects/duplicating-keys-from-photographs https://markhedleyjones.com/projects/duplicating-keys-from-p...

You might need security updates for security systems, like immobilisers, keyless entry etc.

by pabs3 1y ago

You might need security updates for security systems, like immobilisers, keyless entry etc.

I'm happy to manually apply updates for my immobilizer as necessary. Keyless entry is already broken (recent front page) and can't be fixed via update AFAIK at least without leaving behind all current fobs. Given that it's still using a proprietary encryption scheme from the mid 80s it doesn't seem the manufacturers were particularly concerned about security to begin with.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

M95D 1y ago

The only security update for those is removal. Immobilizers via RFID chip were never broken AFAIK.

pabs3 1y ago
Couldn't RFID relay work against those?
- M95D 1y ago
  Not likely, because they're extremely short range (one centimeter or so). The attacker would need to turn the duplicate key in the ignition exactly at the time the other attacker bumps into the owner, exactly on the correct side where the pocket with the key is, and precisely match the position of the key in the pocket with the antenna in the attacker's pocket/bag/whatever. And if the key is in a handbag, then good luck trying to get a reader close to it. But then, how would they get a duplicate of the ignition key?
  - pabs3 1y ago
    Would a stronger signal from the attacker increase that distance? Or one of these: https://blog.nuoplanet.com/en/long-range-rfid-readers https://blog.nuoplanet.com/en/long-range-rfid-readers Since at least 2009 it has been possible to duplicate keys using photography, a hobbyist replicated the work in 2018. So take a photo when the keys are out somewhere; on a table, or when unlocking the car. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/10/reproducing_key.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/10/reproducing_k... https://hackaday.com/2009/09/22/photographic-key-duplication/ https://hackaday.com/2009/09/22/photographic-key-duplication... https://markhedleyjones.com/projects/duplicating-keys-from-photographs https://markhedleyjones.com/projects/duplicating-keys-from-p...