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I'm hopeful that stuff like Android Auto or Apple CarPlay will continue moving some of the risky obsolete-able complexity away of the giant expensive machine I

by Terr_ 1y ago

I'm hopeful that stuff like Android Auto or Apple CarPlay will continue moving some of the risky obsolete-able complexity away of the giant expensive machine I plan to keep for over a decade (the car) and into smaller easier-to-replace ones (my smartphone.) A quick outline for those who haven't used them: The car's head-display becomes mostly-controlled by your phone, which is what supplies any navigation, music, podcasts, address-book, GPS, cellular data-connection, etc. Meanwhile the car focuses on providing the display/touchpad hardware, inputs from steering-wheel controls, and maybe AM/FM radio modes. With the right vehicles/adapters I don't even need to take my phone out of my pocket, which is great because then I can't forget it in the car.

dangus 1y ago
This is not the direction that the software is going in. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/05/carplay-ultra-the-next-generation-of-carplay-begins-rolling-out-today/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/05/carplay-ultra-the-nex...
- compootr 1y ago
  fascinating idea, but no mention of android. Would one (like me!) simply be unable to use this car to its full extent?
- mook 1y ago
  CarPlay Ultra sounds like it's extending it further? That is, it's still essentially VNC† with some data fed from the car and rendered by the phone, but now with multi-monitor support. † it's more complicated than that, but still a dumb framebuffer.
  - poink 1y ago
    This is what I hoped for but based on the Ultra implementation in the Astons is not at all what we’re getting It seems to require pretty deep integration with the automaker (Aston provides a lot of custom visuals), and based on the available third party reviews it doesn’t work as well as you’d suspect for a flagship integration
  - bayindirh 1y ago
    > but still a dumb framebuffer. Nope. Your car and phone exchanges some info, too. Like serial numbers, some real time telemetry data, etc.
  - echoangle 1y ago
    I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I thought the main image would be rendered on the car using local data and only the entertainment stuff is transferred from the phone. And also, how would you drive your car without the phone if everything is rendered on the phone? Would they implement an entire backup dashboard for this? I thought it would always show the CarPlay Ultra interface, even when no phone is connected.
    - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
      > I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I have some understanding of this being someone who has installed way too many aftermarket head units, and as best I can tell, all the rendering indeed occurs on the phone. The CarPlay experience is virtually identical across all the units I've tested on, from my stock '18 Corvette unit, through 4 or 5 ones I've shuffled through in my F-150, and through 2 or 3 through my Chrysler 300. Apart from display size and density, there is no difference at all in all these CarPlay units. They function identically. The phone also gets notably warm even just playing music which is part of why I strongly suspect all of that is phone-side activity at play with the dash just providing a resolution/density combo and touch inputs. > Would they implement an entire backup dashboard for this? Correct, if my research is to be believed. There's a stock OEM OS look to everything in line with each brand's visual designs, which is then swapped out to whatever degree they feel like exposing to CarPlay Ultra, at which point it's reskinned in Apple's look. I don't own any vehicles new enough for this, but it's pretty cool if it works. That said I'm less a fan of everything being a display. For gauges and such I do prefer physical gauges.
      - LJGNYC 1y ago
        Do you have any recommendations on vendors for aftermarket CarPlay?
  - dangus 1y ago
    > CarPlay Ultra provides content for all the driver’s screens, including the instrument cluster, with dynamic and beautiful options for the speedometer, tachometer, fuel gauge, temperature gauge, and more, bringing a consistent look and feel to the entire driving experience. There is no way that’s running on the phone.
zevon 1y ago
This is a bit of a two-edged sword. I kind of doubt that Carplay and Android Auto will keep working with new phones as long as a car can. At which point you will end up with an old smartphone in your car or some workaround like that.
- rimunroe 1y ago
  Has this ever happened with CarPlay? As far as I know, even if your car was made in 2013 when CarPlay was first released it should continue to work just fine with the newest iPhones. If you plug the latest iPhone into your 2013 car, you would see the latest version of CarPlay pop up on the screen. I know there's a new version of CarPlay which requires support from the car maker, but I think CarPlay support is a binary matter of if the car supports CarPlay at all. I'd hope they'd design the system such that it wouldn't become obsolete over the average lifespan of the vehicle.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    I would hope so, but I don't trust computer makers. There are people who still use cars made in the 1960s as their daily driver (probably only a handful in the US). Most parts are still available, and if not you can make them in your garage with affordable tools (metal lathes are rare but not unheard of in a home shop). Apple switch to OSX, m68k to PPC to x86 (ARM is in progress). I had the first android phone - the apps I bought for it back then are not on installable on my current phone (most haven't very modified from what I ran back then). If I had a copy I could still run Office 97 on a modern windows 11 machine - or so I'm told - but nobody will know how to inter change files with me. My company has had to redesign perfectly good embedded controllers just because the chips are not made anymore.
    - philistine 1y ago
      On the other hand, Apple is quick to get rid of old APIs in their software, but they consider features sacrosanct. Only this Fall will macOS lose support for Firewire, which finally means that we have a version of macOS that doesn't support the first iPod. Which came out in 2001. All the USB iPods will still connect and sync.
exabrial 1y ago
This was vehicles made in 2018. I’m trying to keep mine alive as long as possible.
eitally 1y ago
I posted this above, but in new Lexus RX models at least, the Lexus vehicle management software trumps the AA interface so you're forced to setup their mobile app if you want to use AA (for things like navigation). On a related note, the Bluetooth stack in my F150 doesn't work very well with phone calls. I can place calls fine, but receiving calls will not route them through vehicle audio. I have to turn on speaker phone to participate. It's a known problem "won't fix" from Ford, regardless of the fact that they've sold millions of these trucks (mine is a 2017 and has never worked).
- grepfru_it 1y ago
  That sounds like sync 3.. there was a known problem with Bluetooth connectivity but there was a fairly easy way to fix it. I cannot remember but I will look at my ford vehicle tonight for what I did
- slumberlust 1y ago
  They want their hands on that juicy data that Google and apple are getting. It's why GMC opted to make their own instead, and why you have to jump through their hoops first.
foobarian 1y ago
I can't figure out why car manufacturers insist on building whole parallel universes of UIs, media apps, nav apps et cetera. Doesn't it cost a ton? Do people actually use/want this stuff?
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  The why is pretty simple: they want recurring revenue. What the customer wants is secondary.
  - Version467 1y ago
    And insisting on building their own mediocre ui helps them achieve that how exactly? Maybe I'm just super out of touch on how people use their cars, but my cars infotainment system has not made its manufacturer any additional money as far as I can tell.
    - aprilthird2021 1y ago
      Once you have the data the money can be figured out later. You can figure out how people use the car and what features matter to them and upsell or upcharge for those features in the next line. You can cross-advertise (oh you listen to music when driving here's Spotify deal through us and behind-the-scenes we get a cut for lead generation to Spotify). You can use the information to defend in lawsuits. Oh our car is faulty leading to accidents? But all these people were fiddling with the unit before crashing. Also if you control the platform you can sell integration spots to companies. I know my old BMW had a specific separate path to connect Spotify on your phone to car, no other audio app. There's surely other ways I haven't thought of. The investment pays off later IF you get the data, but CarPlay and Android Auto have really mucked that gambit up for the car makers
      - jonbiggums22 1y ago
        Don't forget selling the driving data to insurance companies, private investigators, law enforcement, etc.
Wistar 1y ago
GM, at least on their new Equinox EV, no longer supports either Apple CarPlay or Android Auto electing instead to provide only the Google built-in infotainment system and apps. I discovered this just yesterday while researching the Equinox for a friend. She is no longer interested in the Equinox despite her loving its looks.
- hexyl_C_gut 1y ago
  For some reason, they still get CarPlay outside of US. https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-evs-will-get-apple-carplay-after-all-but-only-outside-the-us https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-evs-will-get-apple-carplay-...

by Terr_ 1y ago

dangus 1y ago

This is not the direction that the software is going in. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/05/carplay-ultra-the-next-generation-of-carplay-begins-rolling-out-today/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/05/carplay-ultra-the-nex...

compootr 1y ago
fascinating idea, but no mention of android. Would one (like me!) simply be unable to use this car to its full extent?
mook 1y ago
CarPlay Ultra sounds like it's extending it further? That is, it's still essentially VNC† with some data fed from the car and rendered by the phone, but now with multi-monitor support. † it's more complicated than that, but still a dumb framebuffer.
- poink 1y ago
  This is what I hoped for but based on the Ultra implementation in the Astons is not at all what we’re getting It seems to require pretty deep integration with the automaker (Aston provides a lot of custom visuals), and based on the available third party reviews it doesn’t work as well as you’d suspect for a flagship integration
- bayindirh 1y ago
  > but still a dumb framebuffer. Nope. Your car and phone exchanges some info, too. Like serial numbers, some real time telemetry data, etc.
- echoangle 1y ago
  I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I thought the main image would be rendered on the car using local data and only the entertainment stuff is transferred from the phone. And also, how would you drive your car without the phone if everything is rendered on the phone? Would they implement an entire backup dashboard for this? I thought it would always show the CarPlay Ultra interface, even when no phone is connected.
  - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
    > I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I have some understanding of this being someone who has installed way too many aftermarket head units, and as best I can tell, all the rendering indeed occurs on the phone. The CarPlay experience is virtually identical across all the units I've tested on, from my stock '18 Corvette unit, through 4 or 5 ones I've shuffled through in my F-150, and through 2 or 3 through my Chrysler 300. Apart from display size and density, there is no difference at all in all these CarPlay units. They function identically. The phone also gets notably warm even just playing music which is part of why I strongly suspect all of that is phone-side activity at play with the dash just providing a resolution/density combo and touch inputs. > Would they implement an entire backup dashboard for this? Correct, if my research is to be believed. There's a stock OEM OS look to everything in line with each brand's visual designs, which is then swapped out to whatever degree they feel like exposing to CarPlay Ultra, at which point it's reskinned in Apple's look. I don't own any vehicles new enough for this, but it's pretty cool if it works. That said I'm less a fan of everything being a display. For gauges and such I do prefer physical gauges.
    - LJGNYC 1y ago
      Do you have any recommendations on vendors for aftermarket CarPlay?
- dangus 1y ago
  > CarPlay Ultra provides content for all the driver’s screens, including the instrument cluster, with dynamic and beautiful options for the speedometer, tachometer, fuel gauge, temperature gauge, and more, bringing a consistent look and feel to the entire driving experience. There is no way that’s running on the phone.

zevon 1y ago

This is a bit of a two-edged sword. I kind of doubt that Carplay and Android Auto will keep working with new phones as long as a car can. At which point you will end up with an old smartphone in your car or some workaround like that.

rimunroe 1y ago
Has this ever happened with CarPlay? As far as I know, even if your car was made in 2013 when CarPlay was first released it should continue to work just fine with the newest iPhones. If you plug the latest iPhone into your 2013 car, you would see the latest version of CarPlay pop up on the screen. I know there's a new version of CarPlay which requires support from the car maker, but I think CarPlay support is a binary matter of if the car supports CarPlay at all. I'd hope they'd design the system such that it wouldn't become obsolete over the average lifespan of the vehicle.
- bluGill 1y ago
  I would hope so, but I don't trust computer makers. There are people who still use cars made in the 1960s as their daily driver (probably only a handful in the US). Most parts are still available, and if not you can make them in your garage with affordable tools (metal lathes are rare but not unheard of in a home shop). Apple switch to OSX, m68k to PPC to x86 (ARM is in progress). I had the first android phone - the apps I bought for it back then are not on installable on my current phone (most haven't very modified from what I ran back then). If I had a copy I could still run Office 97 on a modern windows 11 machine - or so I'm told - but nobody will know how to inter change files with me. My company has had to redesign perfectly good embedded controllers just because the chips are not made anymore.
  - philistine 1y ago
    On the other hand, Apple is quick to get rid of old APIs in their software, but they consider features sacrosanct. Only this Fall will macOS lose support for Firewire, which finally means that we have a version of macOS that doesn't support the first iPod. Which came out in 2001. All the USB iPods will still connect and sync.

exabrial 1y ago

This was vehicles made in 2018. I’m trying to keep mine alive as long as possible.

eitally 1y ago

I posted this above, but in new Lexus RX models at least, the Lexus vehicle management software trumps the AA interface so you're forced to setup their mobile app if you want to use AA (for things like navigation). On a related note, the Bluetooth stack in my F150 doesn't work very well with phone calls. I can place calls fine, but receiving calls will not route them through vehicle audio. I have to turn on speaker phone to participate. It's a known problem "won't fix" from Ford, regardless of the fact that they've sold millions of these trucks (mine is a 2017 and has never worked).

grepfru_it 1y ago
That sounds like sync 3.. there was a known problem with Bluetooth connectivity but there was a fairly easy way to fix it. I cannot remember but I will look at my ford vehicle tonight for what I did
slumberlust 1y ago
They want their hands on that juicy data that Google and apple are getting. It's why GMC opted to make their own instead, and why you have to jump through their hoops first.

foobarian 1y ago

I can't figure out why car manufacturers insist on building whole parallel universes of UIs, media apps, nav apps et cetera. Doesn't it cost a ton? Do people actually use/want this stuff?

AlexandrB 1y ago
The why is pretty simple: they want recurring revenue. What the customer wants is secondary.
- Version467 1y ago
  And insisting on building their own mediocre ui helps them achieve that how exactly? Maybe I'm just super out of touch on how people use their cars, but my cars infotainment system has not made its manufacturer any additional money as far as I can tell.
  - aprilthird2021 1y ago
    Once you have the data the money can be figured out later. You can figure out how people use the car and what features matter to them and upsell or upcharge for those features in the next line. You can cross-advertise (oh you listen to music when driving here's Spotify deal through us and behind-the-scenes we get a cut for lead generation to Spotify). You can use the information to defend in lawsuits. Oh our car is faulty leading to accidents? But all these people were fiddling with the unit before crashing. Also if you control the platform you can sell integration spots to companies. I know my old BMW had a specific separate path to connect Spotify on your phone to car, no other audio app. There's surely other ways I haven't thought of. The investment pays off later IF you get the data, but CarPlay and Android Auto have really mucked that gambit up for the car makers
    - jonbiggums22 1y ago
      Don't forget selling the driving data to insurance companies, private investigators, law enforcement, etc.

Wistar 1y ago

GM, at least on their new Equinox EV, no longer supports either Apple CarPlay or Android Auto electing instead to provide only the Google built-in infotainment system and apps. I discovered this just yesterday while researching the Equinox for a friend. She is no longer interested in the Equinox despite her loving its looks.

hexyl_C_gut 1y ago
For some reason, they still get CarPlay outside of US. https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-evs-will-get-apple-carplay-after-all-but-only-outside-the-us https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-evs-will-get-apple-carplay-...