4 ms·

I dropped out halfway through because I had a job offer after an internship in Berlin, and working for money and exploring Europe seemed a whole lot more fun th

by nicbou 1y ago

I dropped out halfway through because I had a job offer after an internship in Berlin, and working for money and exploring Europe seemed a whole lot more fun than finishing my degree back in Canada. It was the best decision I've ever made, and our tuition was only CAD 5000 per year. I don't know. Some people will do better if they follow the established path. Others blaze their own trail and don't do well in rigid environments. I know I did not. Ten years later, the best part of my studies are the ones that felt like a distraction and a waste of time back then: mandatory engineering and liberal arts classes. I would have learned programming on my own either way, but these other things added so much depth to my life! I think that there are so many ways to live your twenties and grow as a human and as a professional. I strongly doubt that saddling yourself with debt is the best way to do it. Given four years of your full attention, you can achieve so much more, provided that you have the curiosity and discipline to try. I just wonder where the strength to explore the world beyond your main interest would come from.

koakuma-chan 1y ago
Why is nobody mentioning that one cannot get an internship without being a university student?
- esseph 1y ago
  It might amaze you, but most of the people I know in IT never had an internship. It's a fairly recent phenomenon. (I'm old, so recent may mean different things depending on you frame of reference.)
  - koakuma-chan 1y ago
    > It might amaze you, but most of the people I know in IT never had an internship. Not amazed. I presume it used to be easier to get a job back in the day. I am in a similar position as OP's son right now, and I am trying to get into a university to do CS because I believe the only way to enter the field right now is through internships. I believe this because I don't even see any alternatives. Like, if you are not going to go to university, what are you going to do instead? Contribute to some open source project and hope for the best?
    - esseph 1y ago
      Having a solid code repo that people can check out filled with projects is always good. https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/mentorship-programs/ https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/mentorship-programs/
      - koakuma-chan 1y ago
        > Having a solid code repo that people can check out filled with projects is always good. It's nice to have, but ROI on that is terrible. Most of the time people don't even read your resume. > https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/mentorship-programs/ https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/mentorship-programs/ Huh, didn't know this existed. Looks promising.
      - scarface_74 1y ago
        Absolutely no one looks at random open source contributions or your personal repo. They barely look at resumes for more than six seconds. Yes, my open source contributions got me a job the year before last as the second highest contributor to a popular in its niche official “AWS Solution”. But no one cared about my other open source projects that I highlighted that were also well documented, solved a unique need and were on the official “AWS Samples” GitHub repository.
        esseph 1y ago
        Some of us Actually Do when hiring, yes.
        __d 1y ago
        Anecdata: my employer hires C++ programmers, and absolutely looks at a FOSS contributions portfolio.
        JustExAWS 1y ago
        So you expect your candidates to work everyday and spend time after work contributing to open source? Shouldn’t that tell me something about the WLB at the company?
  - scarface_74 1y ago
    Yes and you are old (as am I) so your experience really isn’t relevant for someone trying to get a job in 2025 as a new grad.
    - esseph 1y ago
      That's my experience hiring people, too ;)
- nicbou 1y ago
  You can. A few of my friends did after a career change. Also, given 4 years and $100k, there are many ways to build a resume that will get you hired. I got my start before university by building websites for people, then eventually web apps. I had a successful little business by my first semester.
  - koakuma-chan 1y ago
    Depends on the country I suppose? In NA, all internships have a baseline requirement "pursuing a degree in CS or similar field" and some even go farther to say you must be in third year.
    - nicbou 1y ago
      I am Canadian. Call it an internship or an entry-level job. In the end it's the same outcome: you get paid significantly less but you get a patient employer and an opportunity to learn.
      - koakuma-chan 1y ago
        Oh, ok. Would you mind sharing some tips how one might find this kind of job opportunity today? I am occasionally on Indeed, exploring job postings, and so far my conclusion has been that internships require a university student status. Or am I just out of luck?
        nicbou 1y ago
        I got my last job in 2018, so treat this as outdated advice. I git my start making websites for small businesses. Then I got more complex projects, and eventually contracts as a web developer. Then I started university and had to pause all that. My internship in Germany was a typical one. I found it through a job board. At the end, I dropped out of school and stayed, albeit with a proper salary. I think that the small business world is massively underserved. You have the skills to solve a lot of real problems, and to learn good practices the hard way, as well as a host of soft skills. It's a lot of fun because the impact is immediately visible, and you can't bullshit your way through like in a large corporation. So I think the problem is that you are looking for a well-marked path. There are so many people who have unmet needs, and they don't advertise it as an internship on a job board. Now this is where I will sound like a boomer. Go around and ask. Literally just introduce yourself and ask if there's anything you can help people with. Maybe you can throw a quick form together or write a script or two. You might have to fix someone's printer every once in a while, out there in the real world, not sheltered by an org chart. That's what I used to do, and it was a fantastic learning experience. I remember those days fondly.
scarface_74 1y ago
Did you have parents that you could either stay with or could subsidize your living expenses? Most people have an addiction to food and shelter and can’t wander through life aimlessly finding themselves trying to be a better citizen of the world. Learning programming and being employable directly out of school is entirely different.
gaws 1y ago
> I dropped out halfway through because I had a job offer after an internship in Berlin, and working for money and exploring Europe seemed a whole lot more fun than finishing my degree back in Canada. It was the best decision I've ever made, and our tuition was only CAD 5000 per year. How long ago did this happen?
- nicbou 1y ago
  That would have been around 2015

by nicbou 1y ago

koakuma-chan 1y ago

Why is nobody mentioning that one cannot get an internship without being a university student?

esseph 1y ago
It might amaze you, but most of the people I know in IT never had an internship. It's a fairly recent phenomenon. (I'm old, so recent may mean different things depending on you frame of reference.)
- koakuma-chan 1y ago
  > It might amaze you, but most of the people I know in IT never had an internship. Not amazed. I presume it used to be easier to get a job back in the day. I am in a similar position as OP's son right now, and I am trying to get into a university to do CS because I believe the only way to enter the field right now is through internships. I believe this because I don't even see any alternatives. Like, if you are not going to go to university, what are you going to do instead? Contribute to some open source project and hope for the best?
  - esseph 1y ago
    Having a solid code repo that people can check out filled with projects is always good. https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/mentorship-programs/ https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/mentorship-programs/
    - koakuma-chan 1y ago
      > Having a solid code repo that people can check out filled with projects is always good. It's nice to have, but ROI on that is terrible. Most of the time people don't even read your resume. > https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/mentorship-programs/ https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/mentorship-programs/ Huh, didn't know this existed. Looks promising.
    - scarface_74 1y ago
      Absolutely no one looks at random open source contributions or your personal repo. They barely look at resumes for more than six seconds. Yes, my open source contributions got me a job the year before last as the second highest contributor to a popular in its niche official “AWS Solution”. But no one cared about my other open source projects that I highlighted that were also well documented, solved a unique need and were on the official “AWS Samples” GitHub repository.
      - esseph 1y ago
        Some of us Actually Do when hiring, yes.
      - __d 1y ago
        Anecdata: my employer hires C++ programmers, and absolutely looks at a FOSS contributions portfolio.
        JustExAWS 1y ago
        So you expect your candidates to work everyday and spend time after work contributing to open source? Shouldn’t that tell me something about the WLB at the company?
- scarface_74 1y ago
  Yes and you are old (as am I) so your experience really isn’t relevant for someone trying to get a job in 2025 as a new grad.
  - esseph 1y ago
    That's my experience hiring people, too ;)
nicbou 1y ago
You can. A few of my friends did after a career change. Also, given 4 years and $100k, there are many ways to build a resume that will get you hired. I got my start before university by building websites for people, then eventually web apps. I had a successful little business by my first semester.
- koakuma-chan 1y ago
  Depends on the country I suppose? In NA, all internships have a baseline requirement "pursuing a degree in CS or similar field" and some even go farther to say you must be in third year.
  - nicbou 1y ago
    I am Canadian. Call it an internship or an entry-level job. In the end it's the same outcome: you get paid significantly less but you get a patient employer and an opportunity to learn.
    - koakuma-chan 1y ago
      Oh, ok. Would you mind sharing some tips how one might find this kind of job opportunity today? I am occasionally on Indeed, exploring job postings, and so far my conclusion has been that internships require a university student status. Or am I just out of luck?
      - nicbou 1y ago
        I got my last job in 2018, so treat this as outdated advice. I git my start making websites for small businesses. Then I got more complex projects, and eventually contracts as a web developer. Then I started university and had to pause all that. My internship in Germany was a typical one. I found it through a job board. At the end, I dropped out of school and stayed, albeit with a proper salary. I think that the small business world is massively underserved. You have the skills to solve a lot of real problems, and to learn good practices the hard way, as well as a host of soft skills. It's a lot of fun because the impact is immediately visible, and you can't bullshit your way through like in a large corporation. So I think the problem is that you are looking for a well-marked path. There are so many people who have unmet needs, and they don't advertise it as an internship on a job board. Now this is where I will sound like a boomer. Go around and ask. Literally just introduce yourself and ask if there's anything you can help people with. Maybe you can throw a quick form together or write a script or two. You might have to fix someone's printer every once in a while, out there in the real world, not sheltered by an org chart. That's what I used to do, and it was a fantastic learning experience. I remember those days fondly.

scarface_74 1y ago

Did you have parents that you could either stay with or could subsidize your living expenses? Most people have an addiction to food and shelter and can’t wander through life aimlessly finding themselves trying to be a better citizen of the world. Learning programming and being employable directly out of school is entirely different.

gaws 1y ago

> I dropped out halfway through because I had a job offer after an internship in Berlin, and working for money and exploring Europe seemed a whole lot more fun than finishing my degree back in Canada. It was the best decision I've ever made, and our tuition was only CAD 5000 per year. How long ago did this happen?

nicbou 1y ago
That would have been around 2015