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I'm French and every idiot supports it, even the so-called left. There is nothing I can do except donate money every month to GrapheneOS (https://grapheneos.org
by Disposal8433 1y ago
I'm French and every idiot supports it, even the so-called left. There is nothing I can do except donate money every month to GrapheneOS (https://grapheneos.org/donate https://grapheneos.org/donate). Democracy is dead for me.
- tatjam 1y agoLooking at the supporting members, this appears to be supported by "both parties" across many many countries, what a sad thing to unite over...
- dabber21 1y agowhat are the arguments?
- realusername 1y agoFrance is just very regressive when it comes to the internet, any laws which can make the situation worse is usually voted by all parties (see neighbouring rights or any anti-piracy laws), I don't think there's any real reasoning.
- KennyBlanken 1y agoThe country is predominantly Catholic. So both prudish views on sexual content, but also wanting to pretend sexual abuse by priests in their religion, and their religion protecting those priests, isn't the problem - nope, it's the interwebs creating child abusers. That is coupled with racist fear of terrorist attacks being committed by the African and middle eastern immigrant populations. Sure are a lot of white elephants in the room with you...
- rdm_blackhole 1y agoAs a French person, let me tell you you are wrong. French people mostly don't give a shit about religion and do not have any prudish views. We have many nudists beaches and women are regularly topless on the beach. Talking about sex if accepted in society and between friends and family. So it's not about that at all. What most French people are though is little children that need to be guided and protected by the state. Without the state they are lost. If you look at the news, the most recurring theme is: "why hasn't the government solved this problem for us poor souls? We are helpless, help us!" Therefore French people accept the state and all that it encompasses. They have little protests here and there and sometime they succeed in making the state back down but in the end the state usually wins. It's a form of learned helplessness and a very sad and toxic relationship between the French state and it's citizens.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Saline9515 1y agoWhile I agree with you, this situation is also created by an all-encompassing State that rules every aspect of the French life. Along with taking more than half of the citizens' income (on average), which dramatically restrains any agency that an individual would usually get from being self-sufficient financially. The snake eats its tail.
- realusername 1y agoThere's some old influence from the religion for sure but it's nowhere as important as you think. France is still one of the least religious countries in Europe (Czech Republic usually being the least religious and France in the second position) and people talk about sex openly like a normal subject even at work.
- hk__2 1y agoI think you’re confusing France with Italy. France has had Simone de Beauvoir and still has a very strong feminist culture, had Mai 1968, has same-sex marriage since 2014 and 10 years later it was the first country in the world that added the right to aborption in its constitution; it has huge pride parades every year, not so long ago had an openly-gay Prime minister. It’s fine to talk about sex at work or with the family; you can see boobs on the cover of national newspapers and nobody talks about it because it’s perfectly fine.
- Levitz 1y ago>The country is predominantly Catholic No. Most of the country professes no religion.
- jasonfarnon 1y ago"only about 5% of Catholics in France attend mass regularly, which is roughly 2% of the entire French population" https://www.europenowjournal.org/2019/10/02/the-catholic-ness-of-secular-france/ https://www.europenowjournal.org/2019/10/02/the-catholic-nes... In other words, your claims say more about you than France.
- raverbashing 1y agoI don't think even Chatgpt or Grok could get it this wrong
- f_devd 1y agoIf you're just looking at the website, do note that most (if not all) people are unconfirmed but show "supports" due to the leaked country position (hover over the pill/flag).
- lucideer 1y agoUnfortunately this seems to be a bug in the website. For any representatives that have no position / position unknown, rather than the website showing them as "Unknown" as you'd expect, it just assumes their position is the position of their government's EU Council representative supports this. Many national representatives are aligned with opposition parties within their own country, and as such it's highly likely their position will deviate from that of their government, so this is a pretty bad misrepresentation. Highly misleading.
- Vinnl 1y agoThat sounds like contacting your MEPs could at least be worth it. Usually when it comes to things like this, the parties that I'd consider voting for already vote the way I'd like them to do. (In this case it's even better - my country opposes, even though the governing parties are not mine.)
- JumpCrisscross 1y agoThe original sin are ad-based social media. Everyone (except China) failed to regulate that. So now we see overcorrection. The solution is to regulate Meta and TikTok and YouTube. Until that is on the table we’ll get performative stupidity from both sides.
- komali2 1y agoWhat impression of PRC social media do you have that makes you think the situation is different there? In my experience it's a dumpster fire of consumerism and influencerism, and has just as much fake news as western media. It leaks into Taiwan constantly, especially when there's elections here.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> In my experience it's a dumpster fire of consumerism and influencerism, and has just as much fake news as western media I was frankly going off the kids of business contacts I’ve met. But I’m realising they’re all wealthy—the kids of America’s rich are able to make eye contact, too, because their screen time is tightly regulated.
- medlazik 1y agoNot sure what you call the "so-called left", but the actual left (LFI) certainly doesn't support Chat Control
- OldfieldFund 1y agoprobably they call "so-called left" the liberals
- BlueTemplar 1y agoNobody would call them "left", especially not during Macron's 2nd term, the Walkers (or whatever is their new moniker) have firmly solidified as liberals in the right-wing sense (rather than in the bottom-wing sense).
- AnthonyMouse 1y agoIs there some way we can get people to abandon this entire premise? You have a law that requires age verification. Does the right oppose this because they oppose government regulation? You have a law that spends more tax dollars on law enforcement, lobbied for by the police unions. Does the left support this because they support government spending and unions? There is no consistency in their positions, it's all just whatever happens to be in their coalition right now and it changes over time.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- thrance 1y agoYes, this makes no sense. No way they got 100% of every MPs to agree on this. They never agree on anything. I think the website took the fact that the country supports it and applied that position to each of its MPs.
- wazoox 1y agoActually no, every MEP doesn't support it, the government's position is attributed to all MEP from the country, which is silly.
- thaumasiotes 1y agoNote that chat control has been a top concern of governments since there were governments. The Roman Empire banned private clubs, seeing them as a source of revolution.
- fc417fc802 1y agoAs the US demonstrated, they were correct.
- eraviloi 1y ago[dead]
- SilverElfin 1y agoThe left and the right stopped being about liberal values (like traditionally liberal or whatever) at some point, which are the backbone of democratic societies. I don’t see how you can have democracy without the ability to freely communicate. And that means freedom of speech but also the right to anonymity and privacy.
- komali2 1y agoI think we're just seeing the end game of neoliberalism, which is the fundamental agreement of all modern political parties.
- fsflover 1y agoConsider donating to https://edri.org https://edri.org instead.
- forty 1y agoIf you value democracy, I suggest not to trust any random website you read. Of course the French left (at least EELV/LFI) is not going to support this. This should be obvious if you know a bit what ideas they are defending (them and the others too), which you should as well if democracy matters to you.
- _ache_ 1y agoCan you explain a little why it's obvious? Last time I checked, LFI was for and EELV against. https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=167712&country=fr https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=167712&country=fr
- forty 1y agoIsn't this for the extension of the temporary measure that allowed providers to volontarily scan messages and which does not break E2E encryption?
- _ache_ 1y agoTechnically it for the version of ChatControl of mid-2024 where it was about adding a backdoor to E2E. I didn't find most recent data. But the current version isn't "volontarily" (you mean unpaid or self-willed ?), it's mandatory.
- shshahshsusus 1y ago[flagged]
- latentsea 1y agoThey will eventually come for GrapheneOS too in some way shape or form. Be it regulating hardware attestation being required to use devices, so that only government approved operating systems can be used, or imposing jailtime for possessing devices with capabilities such as GrapheneOS. It will be a sad day when that comes.
- RansomStark 1y agoWhy would you expect anything else from the so-called left? Do you honestly believe only the right want power and control? In my experience the left wants this just as much, if not more than the right. Right-wing politics is starting to show up again in Europe, this is true, but the left / left-of-center has been in power for a long time and need (at least in their view) to remain in power. These kinds of laws allow the powerful group to gain more control and remain in power, it took no time at all for the UK version of this law to block videos of heavy-handed policing [0]. The low power group usually doesn't support controls on speech, as they know it will make their rise to power harder. Once power shifts these views inevitably switch. This has led to the belief, at least in the west, that the right censor and the left are the guardians of free speech - because it was true and people want to believe the world hasn't changed (nobody like to admit that they've become the bad guys). This also leads people make this mistake of believing that politics is a line. It's not, it's a horseshoe. In the middle is the vast majority of people that just want to be left alone, and want to leave others alone. At both edges there are loud, politically active, sociopaths that want power and control to protect and deify their own in-group, while, criminalizing and demonizing the out-group. It's why, when looking at history, the right-wing fascists and the left-wing communists, seem to want totally opposite things, but end up with very similar policies and outcomes (illegal political parties, proscribed groups, concentration camps and genocide). [0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14945805/Online-Safety-Act-free-speech-users-blocked-asylum-seeker-hotel-protests.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14945805/Online-Saf...
- andrepd 1y agoNice theory, but the European left wing parties (The Left, and Greens) are against chat control, while the right wing parties are in favour. In the UK, the Conservatives and the "New Labour" aka centre-right Starmer aka Tory Lite are responsible for massive backsliding of civil liberties, while those "far left" types like Corbyn are opposed to it. So reality, at least in those two examples, seems to contradict your theory.
- andrepd 1y agoTHIS IS NOT TRUE. Both "The Left" and "Greens/EFA", the major left wing parties in the Europarl, OPPOSE Chat Control! Unfortunately the website appeared to show the MEP's positions as being *equal to their country's government's position", which is obviously nonsense! This has since been fixed but the damage is done.... ----- That being said, does it not raise your skepticism bells even a little bit to see every single French MEP painted in the same colour, including parties that hate each other mutually, including liberal, anti-european, and left-wing parties... Should be enough to at least make you raise your eyebrows and be suspicious that something is wrong.
- uyzstvqs 1y agoIt's not a left-right divide. Privacy advocates are a combination of the general right-wing + the anti-establishment left-wing. The people supporting this are establishment career politicians, who are left-wing as well (e.g. ylva johansson), though different from the anti-establishment left-wing (e.g. pirate party). Anyone who tries to make this a left-right issue must stop, because that's how we lose.
- raverbashing 1y agoYup It's more a thing like "boomers who can't install stuff in their phones themselves (except for suspicious apps apparently) vs people who actually understand privacy with the normies on the side"
- mnbpdx 1y agoThe establishment right-wing is pro privacy?
- torginus 1y agoI feel like you substituted 'idiot' for 'politician'. It would be quite surprising if regular people wanted more mass surveillance. But if latter's really the case, then why?
- BaseBaal 1y agoI think it's more apathy than an actual desire for more mass surveillance. People don't care until they are directly, negatively affected. Same as it ever was.
- miroljub 1y agoThese so called left are as left as original national socialists. They share pretty much same views of state, security, country, media, ... they just want total control. And that applies to all parties that call themselves left, regardless of a country.