4 ms·

> ... speaks russian language without an accent because he knows no other language. At least Belorussians and Ukrainians can speak Russian without an accent de

> ... speaks russian language without an accent because he knows no other language. At least Belorussians and Ukrainians can speak Russian without an accent despite knowing their own languages. > Soviets erased his ... I doubt the USSR had such power solely on its own. It depends mostly on the will of parents (and grandparents) and the type of a young person. If a kid likes art, it's more likely the kid would be interested in national memory, if a kid is more into tech, then it seems not that important, which nevertheless can change later. Russian Germans (not necessary all of them) consider themselves as Germans even after hundreds of years living in Russian Empire and then in the USSR.

throwaway3060 1y ago
If a kid in the Soviet Union was interested in art and used that to express national memory, then there would be consequences. As an adult, they'd probably be sent to a gulag and never seen again. This is how the Soviet Union crushed national memories beyond just the name (never the name itself, making sure they knew they were "different" somehow). They didn't succeed in completely crushing all national memories, but a few more decades and who knows what might have happened.
- kvemkon 1y ago
  > to express national memory The culture has been preserved using non-provocative way by not mixing it with politic. Surely we must be respectful and thankful to those going rather provocative way and suffering. The daily Soviet system issues have been successfully mentioned in a subtle way in films since middle 60s, which became classic. I'm not aware of similar from movies from China. Famous Belorussian and Ukrainian songs have been performed in public on radio, TV in the USSR. Even today some western world artists say, that sure, of course, the culture is not separate from politic while the others say they are doing art not politics and welcome questions about their public art not their private political opinions and preferences. Similar to many singers and actors dislike questions about their private life and lovers instead of what actually matters: their art of doing music, singing, performing. > ... what might have happened. Since middle 80s the level of freedom started rapidly to increase.
  - throwaway3060 1y ago
    Only bits and pieces of culture can survive through such methods. It is enough to escape full assimilation, but only just. All it would take is the whim of another Stalin. The damage is such that those who went through it may not even realize what has been lost, until one day they (or future generations) find evidence on the outside of what culture was once like.
  - watwut 1y ago
    > The culture has been preserved using non-provocative way by not mixing it with politic. Surely we must be respectful and thankful to those going rather provocative way and suffering. Local cultural symbols themselves were seen as "political" and "provocative". The definition of political and provocative was broad. Small bits a pieces passing through the barriers are not "it".
- nbaksalyar 1y ago
  In the Stalin times, yes. But the policy in the early Soviet Union was in fact opposite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia
ponector 1y ago
>>I doubt the USSR had such power solely on its own. It depends mostly on the will of parents (and grandparents) and the type of a young person. That is a pure victim blaming. If the system makes it dangerous to teach your kids your culture, most parents will no do it. Nowadays for singing Ukrainian songs you can go to the russian prison. Imagine what could be under the Stalin rule.
- kvemkon 1y ago
  I didn't mean to blame victims. I just mean that under totalitarian regime one need to put extra work to compensate the pressure from the state and try to do it wise. Right after the Stalin rule there have been official De-Stalinization and rehabilitation of Gulag prisoners. That's why under USSR I usually don't mean Stalin period. There was no one single and equal USSR whole 70+ years long. Every new party leader is a new era. > singing Ukrainian songs you can go to the russian prison I'm not sure how is this right now, I fear it got worse, but on August 2022 it was possible(*). Russian guitarist performed a Ukrainian song in Ukrainian original in public: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPu5WQKXsjM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPu5WQKXsjM (cut) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82argH8zZXQ&t=1041s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82argH8zZXQ&t=1041s (full, 10.89 million views) And it is not just some beautiful Ukrainian song. It is a prominent "I will not surrender without a fight" (2005). Which sounds provocative enough these days. Yeah, he did not continue doing it again and again, thus it's by no means a prove one can safely practice this on a daily basis. This song must be known by almost every Russian (and Belorussian), since this song was used once Zelensky played the main male role in the rus-ukr movie "Office Romance. Our Time" (2011) remake of the famous 1977 USSR original. OTOH one of the most prominent (former) Ukrainian singers and since 2014 Russian singer Taisia Povaliy could sing her Ukrainian songs on December 2024 at the main State Kremlin Palace in Moscow. (Obviously, because she openly supports the state.) [1] https://www.mk.ru/social/2024/12/11/marshal-kadysheva-buynov-otmetili-yubiley-taisii-povaliy-v-kremle-spela-na-ukrainskom-i-rasplakalas.html https://www.mk.ru/social/2024/12/11/marshal-kadysheva-buynov... (rus.)
  - throwaway3060 1y ago
    From what hints I've been able to piece together, suppression of religion may have actually gotten worse during the Krushchev years. So it's not quite as simple as there being ups and downs - different aspects of culture got suppressed in different ways at different times.

throwaway3060 1y ago

If a kid in the Soviet Union was interested in art and used that to express national memory, then there would be consequences. As an adult, they'd probably be sent to a gulag and never seen again. This is how the Soviet Union crushed national memories beyond just the name (never the name itself, making sure they knew they were "different" somehow). They didn't succeed in completely crushing all national memories, but a few more decades and who knows what might have happened.

kvemkon 1y ago
> to express national memory The culture has been preserved using non-provocative way by not mixing it with politic. Surely we must be respectful and thankful to those going rather provocative way and suffering. The daily Soviet system issues have been successfully mentioned in a subtle way in films since middle 60s, which became classic. I'm not aware of similar from movies from China. Famous Belorussian and Ukrainian songs have been performed in public on radio, TV in the USSR. Even today some western world artists say, that sure, of course, the culture is not separate from politic while the others say they are doing art not politics and welcome questions about their public art not their private political opinions and preferences. Similar to many singers and actors dislike questions about their private life and lovers instead of what actually matters: their art of doing music, singing, performing. > ... what might have happened. Since middle 80s the level of freedom started rapidly to increase.
- throwaway3060 1y ago
  Only bits and pieces of culture can survive through such methods. It is enough to escape full assimilation, but only just. All it would take is the whim of another Stalin. The damage is such that those who went through it may not even realize what has been lost, until one day they (or future generations) find evidence on the outside of what culture was once like.
- watwut 1y ago
  > The culture has been preserved using non-provocative way by not mixing it with politic. Surely we must be respectful and thankful to those going rather provocative way and suffering. Local cultural symbols themselves were seen as "political" and "provocative". The definition of political and provocative was broad. Small bits a pieces passing through the barriers are not "it".
nbaksalyar 1y ago
In the Stalin times, yes. But the policy in the early Soviet Union was in fact opposite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia

ponector 1y ago

>>I doubt the USSR had such power solely on its own. It depends mostly on the will of parents (and grandparents) and the type of a young person. That is a pure victim blaming. If the system makes it dangerous to teach your kids your culture, most parents will no do it. Nowadays for singing Ukrainian songs you can go to the russian prison. Imagine what could be under the Stalin rule.

kvemkon 1y ago
I didn't mean to blame victims. I just mean that under totalitarian regime one need to put extra work to compensate the pressure from the state and try to do it wise. Right after the Stalin rule there have been official De-Stalinization and rehabilitation of Gulag prisoners. That's why under USSR I usually don't mean Stalin period. There was no one single and equal USSR whole 70+ years long. Every new party leader is a new era. > singing Ukrainian songs you can go to the russian prison I'm not sure how is this right now, I fear it got worse, but on August 2022 it was possible(*). Russian guitarist performed a Ukrainian song in Ukrainian original in public: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPu5WQKXsjM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPu5WQKXsjM (cut) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82argH8zZXQ&t=1041s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82argH8zZXQ&t=1041s (full, 10.89 million views) And it is not just some beautiful Ukrainian song. It is a prominent "I will not surrender without a fight" (2005). Which sounds provocative enough these days. Yeah, he did not continue doing it again and again, thus it's by no means a prove one can safely practice this on a daily basis. This song must be known by almost every Russian (and Belorussian), since this song was used once Zelensky played the main male role in the rus-ukr movie "Office Romance. Our Time" (2011) remake of the famous 1977 USSR original. OTOH one of the most prominent (former) Ukrainian singers and since 2014 Russian singer Taisia Povaliy could sing her Ukrainian songs on December 2024 at the main State Kremlin Palace in Moscow. (Obviously, because she openly supports the state.) [1] https://www.mk.ru/social/2024/12/11/marshal-kadysheva-buynov-otmetili-yubiley-taisii-povaliy-v-kremle-spela-na-ukrainskom-i-rasplakalas.html https://www.mk.ru/social/2024/12/11/marshal-kadysheva-buynov... (rus.)
- throwaway3060 1y ago
  From what hints I've been able to piece together, suppression of religion may have actually gotten worse during the Krushchev years. So it's not quite as simple as there being ups and downs - different aspects of culture got suppressed in different ways at different times.