4 ms·

He is still right. It is a desktop PC that is less repairable than all other desktop PCs, from a brand that is known to champion repairability. They had a reaso

by onli 1y ago

He is still right. It is a desktop PC that is less repairable than all other desktop PCs, from a brand that is known to champion repairability. They had a reason for it, but could've chosen to not create more throwaway things.

trenchpilgrim 1y ago
The 128GB version wouldn't be throwaway, since that's the maximum the platform as a whole supports anyway- more memory than that would require a new mainboard and CPU at the same time.
- nemomarx 1y ago
  Not for upgrade reasons but what if you have a fault in one of the dimms or etc? Now you can't just drop in a replacement without changing everything.
  - cyanydeez 1y ago
    it's basically the same as asking what happens when your M4 Apple has a fault. It's soldered based on the desire to use the ram as part of the GPU. Without that, it's really not a interesting solution. demanding replaceable ram means also not wanting the benefits of the integrated memory
  - rs186 1y ago
    I wonder why so few people ask Apple products of such questions -- "what if my SSD goes bad, does it mean my computer is now completely useless?"
    - nemomarx 1y ago
      I would also ask this! But part of the framework brand was selling a laptop where the answer to that question was being able to replace it on your own. So it's just kind of a contrast for their desktop to be less repairable than their laptop. Personally I think it's bad that apple products are so poorly repairable and so expensive to upgrade.
    - alpaca128 1y ago
      Worse, Apple also still claims to care about the environment. While not allowing the iMac to be used as external screen, cutting its useful lifetime by at least a decade.
  - sidewndr46 1y ago
    How often have you had a memory chip fail? I ask because I only have had it happen once in my lifetime that I can recall and it was for a very dumb reason.
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- beeflet 1y ago
  the platform should support more memory
- richardw 1y ago
  That applies to all computers when you buy the fully specced versions on day 1. A maxxed out iPad isn’t throwaway, but framework represents a higher standard of upgradability.
epistasis 1y ago
I have been continuously baffled by the people that think that soldered on RAM is somehow "throwaway". My last desktop build is eight years old and I have never upgraded the ram. Never will. My next build will have an entirely new motherboard, ram, and GPU, and the last set will end up at the ewaste recycler, because who could I find that wants that old hardware? Soldered RAM, CPU, and GPU, that give space benefits and performance benefits is exactly what I want, and results in no more ewaste at all. In fact less ewaste, because if I had a smaller form factor I could justify keeping the older computer around for longer. The size of the thing is a bigger cause of waste for me than the ability to upgrade RAM. Not everybody upgrades RAM, and those people deserve computers too. Framework's brand appears to be offering something that other suppliers are not, rather than expand ability. That's a much better brand and niche overall.
- onli 1y ago
  > Not everybody upgrades RAM, and those people deserve computers too. No. It's end of the line with consumerism and we either start repairing and recycling or we die. Framework catered to people who agree with that, and this product is not in line. I have no idea why you would not upgrade your memory, I have done so in all PCs I ever owned and all laptops, and it's a very common (and cheap) upgrade. It reduces waste because people can then use their system longer, which means less garbage over the lifetime of a person. And as was already commented, it is not only about upgrades, but also about repairs. Ram breaks rather often.
  - epistasis 1y ago
    I have had the system for eight years and at no point would upgrading RAM have increased performance. Upgrading the RAM would have created more waste than properly sizing the RAM to COU proportion from the beginning. It is very odd to encounter someone who has such a narrow view of computing that they cannot imagine someone not upgrading their RAM. I have not once, literally not once have RAM break either. I have been part of the management of clusters of hundreds of compute nodes, that would occasionally each have their failures, but not once was RAM the cause of failure. I'm fairly shocked to hear that anybody's RAM has failed, honestly, unless it's been overlocked or something else.
linotype 1y ago
The only part I’ve ever had not fail on a PC or Laptop is RAM.
- trenchpilgrim 1y ago
  RAM failure is actually pretty common on non-JEDEC profiles, I've seen it happen a lot on gaming PCs. Very uncommon on "regular" computers that aren't pushing the clock and timings, though.
  - linotype 1y ago
    Oh yeah I never push the limits of my systems like that. At least for PC gamers replacing RAM is easy and they’ll probably upgrade it eventually anyway.

by onli 1y ago

trenchpilgrim 1y ago

The 128GB version wouldn't be throwaway, since that's the maximum the platform as a whole supports anyway- more memory than that would require a new mainboard and CPU at the same time.

nemomarx 1y ago
Not for upgrade reasons but what if you have a fault in one of the dimms or etc? Now you can't just drop in a replacement without changing everything.
- cyanydeez 1y ago
  it's basically the same as asking what happens when your M4 Apple has a fault. It's soldered based on the desire to use the ram as part of the GPU. Without that, it's really not a interesting solution. demanding replaceable ram means also not wanting the benefits of the integrated memory
- rs186 1y ago
  I wonder why so few people ask Apple products of such questions -- "what if my SSD goes bad, does it mean my computer is now completely useless?"
  - nemomarx 1y ago
    I would also ask this! But part of the framework brand was selling a laptop where the answer to that question was being able to replace it on your own. So it's just kind of a contrast for their desktop to be less repairable than their laptop. Personally I think it's bad that apple products are so poorly repairable and so expensive to upgrade.
  - alpaca128 1y ago
    Worse, Apple also still claims to care about the environment. While not allowing the iMac to be used as external screen, cutting its useful lifetime by at least a decade.
- sidewndr46 1y ago
  How often have you had a memory chip fail? I ask because I only have had it happen once in my lifetime that I can recall and it was for a very dumb reason.
deleted 1y ago
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beeflet 1y ago
the platform should support more memory
richardw 1y ago
That applies to all computers when you buy the fully specced versions on day 1. A maxxed out iPad isn’t throwaway, but framework represents a higher standard of upgradability.

epistasis 1y ago

I have been continuously baffled by the people that think that soldered on RAM is somehow "throwaway". My last desktop build is eight years old and I have never upgraded the ram. Never will. My next build will have an entirely new motherboard, ram, and GPU, and the last set will end up at the ewaste recycler, because who could I find that wants that old hardware? Soldered RAM, CPU, and GPU, that give space benefits and performance benefits is exactly what I want, and results in no more ewaste at all. In fact less ewaste, because if I had a smaller form factor I could justify keeping the older computer around for longer. The size of the thing is a bigger cause of waste for me than the ability to upgrade RAM. Not everybody upgrades RAM, and those people deserve computers too. Framework's brand appears to be offering something that other suppliers are not, rather than expand ability. That's a much better brand and niche overall.

onli 1y ago
> Not everybody upgrades RAM, and those people deserve computers too. No. It's end of the line with consumerism and we either start repairing and recycling or we die. Framework catered to people who agree with that, and this product is not in line. I have no idea why you would not upgrade your memory, I have done so in all PCs I ever owned and all laptops, and it's a very common (and cheap) upgrade. It reduces waste because people can then use their system longer, which means less garbage over the lifetime of a person. And as was already commented, it is not only about upgrades, but also about repairs. Ram breaks rather often.
- epistasis 1y ago
  I have had the system for eight years and at no point would upgrading RAM have increased performance. Upgrading the RAM would have created more waste than properly sizing the RAM to COU proportion from the beginning. It is very odd to encounter someone who has such a narrow view of computing that they cannot imagine someone not upgrading their RAM. I have not once, literally not once have RAM break either. I have been part of the management of clusters of hundreds of compute nodes, that would occasionally each have their failures, but not once was RAM the cause of failure. I'm fairly shocked to hear that anybody's RAM has failed, honestly, unless it's been overlocked or something else.

linotype 1y ago

The only part I’ve ever had not fail on a PC or Laptop is RAM.

trenchpilgrim 1y ago
RAM failure is actually pretty common on non-JEDEC profiles, I've seen it happen a lot on gaming PCs. Very uncommon on "regular" computers that aren't pushing the clock and timings, though.
- linotype 1y ago
  Oh yeah I never push the limits of my systems like that. At least for PC gamers replacing RAM is easy and they’ll probably upgrade it eventually anyway.