2 ms·

> The matters of race occupy a much smaller percentage of the brains of people outside of the USA. I say this completely without malice. But do you say it with

> The matters of race occupy a much smaller percentage of the brains of people outside of the USA. I say this completely without malice. But do you say it with first-hand experience? Having gone back to Russia to meet with relatives, it was very clear that they considered "Tajiks" to be somewhere below them on a social ladder, and one relative directly inquired whether I felt safe living in America with all the "Africans" living in New York. (Granted, that last statement could back up your point that it only matters in America - but it didn't feel that way at the time.)

ponector 1y ago
And don't forget Jews. Jews have always been the number one to be hated by common tovarish, as well as modern russians.
- riehwvfbk 1y ago
  Antisemitism in Europe has a long history stemming from the church wanting to paint Jews as "Christ-killers" and "other". There was a much more famous and murderous contemporary antisemitic movement in Germany. Singling out Russia is simply weird. The Jews in the later Soviet Union did still face discrimination, but it was of the variety of being denied university admissions due to quotas. Kind of like what the Ivy League does to kids of Asian descent in the USA these days.
  - throwaway3060 1y ago
    There is so much wrong in this statement, but more history required to explain it than a single post can cover. I'll try to cover only a few right now: - The more famous antisemitic movement in Germany, while still fully responsible for its actions, used earlier Russian-published conspiracy theories as its foundational documents. - The antisemitism of the late Russian empire was to the point that millions left to escape it. - In the late Stalin years, Jewish figures of note would end up either assassinated or imprisoned, with rumors abounding of a mass deportation coming. - In the years beyond and up to the collapse, Jewish culture, language, and religion were almost completely suppressed. References to the Holocaust could not mention Jews as victims. Systematic and state antisemitism was tacitly allowed, even encouraged. - By the time of the collapse, almost all Jewish cultural knowledge had ceased to exist, only the most basic and vague knowledge remained. (Contrary to popular belief, the Nazis only played a partial role here once they lost - much of this culture still existed in 1945). To diminish the intense level of antisemitism by comparing it to anything in America is absurd, and highly problematic.
    - riehwvfbk 1y ago
      I think you got your timelines mixed up in your effort to portray me as a neo-Nazi. I know Russians are responsible for everything wrong in the world ever, but when I say that there is a rich tradition of antisemitism in Europe, I mean since at least the time of Shakespeare. Merchant of Venice kind of thing. In Germany, Nazis didn't just invent antisemitism out of thin air. They exploited a common sentiment held by the working class. If you think that's due to Russian propaganda, well, we are also under your bed. Be very afraid. Lastly, there is a trend lately to label "problematic" any sentiment of insufficient piety towards all things Semitic. This is a great culture, but it has shown that like any other great culture it is capable of genocide.
      - throwaway3060 1y ago
        Have you ever heard of Protocols of the Elders of Zion? This was the central source of the Nazi's specific claims, even when antisemitism was nothing new to Germany. It was created by a pro-Tsar Russian publishing house. All the conspiracy theories relating to communism came from this source. If you see a timeline discrepancy, point it out. But if you've never heard of the Doctor's Plot or Soviet "Zionology", maybe consider looking them up.
- kvemkon 1y ago
  > hated by common tovarish Were the leading Bolsheviki not of Jewish descent? And leading scientists until the very unfortunate "Doctors' plot".
m4rtink 1y ago
I think this might have changed for the worst since the soviet times (or at least is now less covert ?). IIRC when someone interviewed one of the warlords from Chechnya he mentioned he would probably be a high ranking officer in the soviet military by this point if the soviet union still exiated. With this no longer being possible, they ended up doing other things.
- riehwvfbk 1y ago
  You're thinking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev Fascinating man, really. If you do read the article - notice that while he resigned rather than follow orders to suppress a rebellion in Estonia, and there are streets named after him in the places that hate Russia, he also won elections with 90% of the vote once he became a warlord and disbanded parliament. History, it would seem, is not black and white.
riehwvfbk 1y ago
Yes, I speak from first hand experience. I have family and friends in Russia. Nobody in my circles is a racist. If someone would speak of a "churka" I'd be concerned for my friend and try to get them to see a psychiatrist. Do racist people exists? Yes, they do. They tend to live in small insular towns. Kind of like they do in the rest of the world. If someone hails from a small town they may have a racist uncle. Kind of like someone from Texas might. The correct reaction is the same - an eye roll. If I were to hazard a guess, these racist relatives are probably not university professors. I don't mean this disparagingly - I do not have an elite pedigree myself. But I suspect you are comparing against your knowledge worker acquaintances in the US. You should try speaking to some American tradespeople some time and see if you still think Russians are more racist.
- ponector 1y ago
  >> Do racist people exists? Yes, they do. They tend to live in small insular towns And Moscow. And other big cities. People of color are beaten routinely in Moscow, local police will do nothing about that, may not even register it. A friend of mine has relative in Moscow, son of high rank Soviet scientist. They transfered their son to the religious school under russian orthodox church explicitly mentioned the reason: no Tajiks there.
  - riehwvfbk 1y ago
    Let me point out the fly in the ointment: in the enlightened SF Bay Area high-flying tech workers who would never dare be associated with anything less than 100% liberal leanings... still send their own kids to private schools rather than a public in East San Jose, for much the same reasons. And this is generally true. Ask any of these enlightened non-racists if they would send their kids to a school in Compton, and watch them squirm.
    - AlexeyBelov 1y ago
      It seems you're making excuses for pretty much everything in this thread.

ponector 1y ago

And don't forget Jews. Jews have always been the number one to be hated by common tovarish, as well as modern russians.

riehwvfbk 1y ago
Antisemitism in Europe has a long history stemming from the church wanting to paint Jews as "Christ-killers" and "other". There was a much more famous and murderous contemporary antisemitic movement in Germany. Singling out Russia is simply weird. The Jews in the later Soviet Union did still face discrimination, but it was of the variety of being denied university admissions due to quotas. Kind of like what the Ivy League does to kids of Asian descent in the USA these days.
- throwaway3060 1y ago
  There is so much wrong in this statement, but more history required to explain it than a single post can cover. I'll try to cover only a few right now: - The more famous antisemitic movement in Germany, while still fully responsible for its actions, used earlier Russian-published conspiracy theories as its foundational documents. - The antisemitism of the late Russian empire was to the point that millions left to escape it. - In the late Stalin years, Jewish figures of note would end up either assassinated or imprisoned, with rumors abounding of a mass deportation coming. - In the years beyond and up to the collapse, Jewish culture, language, and religion were almost completely suppressed. References to the Holocaust could not mention Jews as victims. Systematic and state antisemitism was tacitly allowed, even encouraged. - By the time of the collapse, almost all Jewish cultural knowledge had ceased to exist, only the most basic and vague knowledge remained. (Contrary to popular belief, the Nazis only played a partial role here once they lost - much of this culture still existed in 1945). To diminish the intense level of antisemitism by comparing it to anything in America is absurd, and highly problematic.
  - riehwvfbk 1y ago
    I think you got your timelines mixed up in your effort to portray me as a neo-Nazi. I know Russians are responsible for everything wrong in the world ever, but when I say that there is a rich tradition of antisemitism in Europe, I mean since at least the time of Shakespeare. Merchant of Venice kind of thing. In Germany, Nazis didn't just invent antisemitism out of thin air. They exploited a common sentiment held by the working class. If you think that's due to Russian propaganda, well, we are also under your bed. Be very afraid. Lastly, there is a trend lately to label "problematic" any sentiment of insufficient piety towards all things Semitic. This is a great culture, but it has shown that like any other great culture it is capable of genocide.
    - throwaway3060 1y ago
      Have you ever heard of Protocols of the Elders of Zion? This was the central source of the Nazi's specific claims, even when antisemitism was nothing new to Germany. It was created by a pro-Tsar Russian publishing house. All the conspiracy theories relating to communism came from this source. If you see a timeline discrepancy, point it out. But if you've never heard of the Doctor's Plot or Soviet "Zionology", maybe consider looking them up.
kvemkon 1y ago
> hated by common tovarish Were the leading Bolsheviki not of Jewish descent? And leading scientists until the very unfortunate "Doctors' plot".

m4rtink 1y ago

I think this might have changed for the worst since the soviet times (or at least is now less covert ?). IIRC when someone interviewed one of the warlords from Chechnya he mentioned he would probably be a high ranking officer in the soviet military by this point if the soviet union still exiated. With this no longer being possible, they ended up doing other things.

riehwvfbk 1y ago
You're thinking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev Fascinating man, really. If you do read the article - notice that while he resigned rather than follow orders to suppress a rebellion in Estonia, and there are streets named after him in the places that hate Russia, he also won elections with 90% of the vote once he became a warlord and disbanded parliament. History, it would seem, is not black and white.

riehwvfbk 1y ago

Yes, I speak from first hand experience. I have family and friends in Russia. Nobody in my circles is a racist. If someone would speak of a "churka" I'd be concerned for my friend and try to get them to see a psychiatrist. Do racist people exists? Yes, they do. They tend to live in small insular towns. Kind of like they do in the rest of the world. If someone hails from a small town they may have a racist uncle. Kind of like someone from Texas might. The correct reaction is the same - an eye roll. If I were to hazard a guess, these racist relatives are probably not university professors. I don't mean this disparagingly - I do not have an elite pedigree myself. But I suspect you are comparing against your knowledge worker acquaintances in the US. You should try speaking to some American tradespeople some time and see if you still think Russians are more racist.

ponector 1y ago
>> Do racist people exists? Yes, they do. They tend to live in small insular towns And Moscow. And other big cities. People of color are beaten routinely in Moscow, local police will do nothing about that, may not even register it. A friend of mine has relative in Moscow, son of high rank Soviet scientist. They transfered their son to the religious school under russian orthodox church explicitly mentioned the reason: no Tajiks there.
- riehwvfbk 1y ago
  Let me point out the fly in the ointment: in the enlightened SF Bay Area high-flying tech workers who would never dare be associated with anything less than 100% liberal leanings... still send their own kids to private schools rather than a public in East San Jose, for much the same reasons. And this is generally true. Ask any of these enlightened non-racists if they would send their kids to a school in Compton, and watch them squirm.
  - AlexeyBelov 1y ago
    It seems you're making excuses for pretty much everything in this thread.