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How about for schools that had racial segregation within living memory? Can't be an old legacy there if you are the wrong race. Even without formal segregatio

by cma 1y ago

How about for schools that had racial segregation within living memory? Can't be an old legacy there if you are the wrong race. Even without formal segregation there was discrimination of some amount. Can argue it went both ways at different points with affirmative action programs but most schools with AA weighted legacy just as high. I think it is best to do away with legacy admits especially because of racial history but also because it is a kind of nobility system, but that will make schools rely on government more right now which seems to be as bad for academic freedom and freedom to not fund genocide as the donor model.

telotortium 1y ago
> How about for schools that had racial segregation within living memory? Maybe if you’re a Boomer, although even by the time they were going to university, racial discrimination was rapidly being replaced by affirmative action. This is the 2020s - even though some problems from that era still haven’t been solved, brute forcing the solutions from back then won’t make them any better and has already produced a major backlash.
- matthewdgreen 1y ago
  I’m not a boomer. I have kids who are in high school. Racial discrimination is very much within my living memory, obviously affected other parents in my cohort, and still exists all over the city I live in.
  - telotortium 1y ago
    > Racial discrimination is very much within my living memory, obviously affected other parents in my cohort, and still exists all over the city I live in. If we’re talking about Asians, I agree with you, as far as non-Bob Jones universities are concerned.
  - adastra22 1y ago
    The word used was segregation, not discrimination.
    - matthewdgreen 1y ago
      Come visit Baltimore and I’ll take you for a drive around the city. You can tell me if it isn’t de facto racially segregated. And then you can visit the actual South where racial segregation was “law”, and you can explain to me how actual patterns established under segregation haven’t been locked into amber.
      - adastra22 1y ago
        Are schools still segregated? That’s the topic.
        matthewdgreen 1y ago
        Again, come visit Baltimore, or go visit the South.
        adastra22 1y ago
        I have. To my knowledge, schools are not segregated by law.
        matthewdgreen 1y ago
        I try really hard to be precise on HN because I recognize and even begrudgingly respect pedantry. This is why I wrote “de facto segregation” in my original post, just because I was concerned that somebody responding to my post might not be clear about the topic of discussion. And while I can reluctantly respect pedantry, I have zero patience for people who combine pedantry with careless reading.
        adastra22 1y ago
        If you think that 'these neighborhoods tend to be black, and these neighborhoods tend to be white, but for largely historical and cultural reasons, and people are free to move and live where they want' is "de facto segregation," then I think you have seriously watered down the term. This isn't pedantic nitpicking. Segregation is a deeply evil employment of the state machinery to enforce and persist strict racial divisions in a society. People choosing to stay near their friends, family, and community centers & therefore the census showing large clustering of self-identified racial groups, is not in any way the same thing.

by cma 1y ago

telotortium 1y ago

> How about for schools that had racial segregation within living memory? Maybe if you’re a Boomer, although even by the time they were going to university, racial discrimination was rapidly being replaced by affirmative action. This is the 2020s - even though some problems from that era still haven’t been solved, brute forcing the solutions from back then won’t make them any better and has already produced a major backlash.

matthewdgreen 1y ago
I’m not a boomer. I have kids who are in high school. Racial discrimination is very much within my living memory, obviously affected other parents in my cohort, and still exists all over the city I live in.
- telotortium 1y ago
  > Racial discrimination is very much within my living memory, obviously affected other parents in my cohort, and still exists all over the city I live in. If we’re talking about Asians, I agree with you, as far as non-Bob Jones universities are concerned.
- adastra22 1y ago
  The word used was segregation, not discrimination.
  - matthewdgreen 1y ago
    Come visit Baltimore and I’ll take you for a drive around the city. You can tell me if it isn’t de facto racially segregated. And then you can visit the actual South where racial segregation was “law”, and you can explain to me how actual patterns established under segregation haven’t been locked into amber.
    - adastra22 1y ago
      Are schools still segregated? That’s the topic.
      - matthewdgreen 1y ago
        Again, come visit Baltimore, or go visit the South.
        adastra22 1y ago
        I have. To my knowledge, schools are not segregated by law.
        matthewdgreen 1y ago
        I try really hard to be precise on HN because I recognize and even begrudgingly respect pedantry. This is why I wrote “de facto segregation” in my original post, just because I was concerned that somebody responding to my post might not be clear about the topic of discussion. And while I can reluctantly respect pedantry, I have zero patience for people who combine pedantry with careless reading.
        adastra22 1y ago
        If you think that 'these neighborhoods tend to be black, and these neighborhoods tend to be white, but for largely historical and cultural reasons, and people are free to move and live where they want' is "de facto segregation," then I think you have seriously watered down the term. This isn't pedantic nitpicking. Segregation is a deeply evil employment of the state machinery to enforce and persist strict racial divisions in a society. People choosing to stay near their friends, family, and community centers & therefore the census showing large clustering of self-identified racial groups, is not in any way the same thing.