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> The best system The best system for growth. It's important to point out that Capitalism won because it grew faster. But nothing can grow forever--certainly n
by titzer 1y ago
> The best system
The best system for growth. It's important to point out that Capitalism won because it grew faster. But nothing can grow forever--certainly not exponentially--so we're now finding out how poorly late stage Capitalism copes with slowing growth and population. Oh, and that little looming thing about environmental consequences.
- cosmicgadget 1y agoThat's where a proactive government comes in.
- chihuahua 1y agoYou should check out how Communism treated the environment.
- titzer 1y agoOh yes, some good ole black and white thinking will help the dialogue.
- general1726 1y ago> Capitalism copes with slowing growth and population. Oh, and that little looming thing about environmental consequences. During communism Czech Republic lost forests over whole mountain range, because they were melted away by acid rains because it was cheaper to run brown coal power plants without any filtration. Rivers were used as sewers for big factories. Water being brown-red under the paper mill? That's normal comrade. Having massive clumps of foam under weirs and rivers smelling like swamp and detergent? Don't complain comrade if you don't want to have problems. Oil spills (i.e. from oil pipes) weren't cleaned, they were just covered with earth, some found decades after fall of communism. Nobody cared about filtration in general. It was kind of normal to have a smoke cloud over an industrial city forever, unless winds were blowing strong enough to gift this poisonous present to countryside. Is it snowing in the summer? Yeah it is not, that's just ash from factory over there. Try to catch "snowflakes" on your tongue if you would like to have cancer in few years. Agriculture was insane as well. Forced collectivization of land and making fields as big as possible so mechanization is as effective as possible has caused erosion of soil and thus increase of usage of fertilizers which were flushed into already polluted rivers during rains. I could go on and on. Communism has nothing to do with environmentalism.
- titzer 1y ago> Communism has nothing to do with environmentalism. No one claimed it does. Basically all of what you wrote above is because of pursuit of economic growth regardless of the -ism. Environmental destruction is the inevitable result of growth of industrial society. Governments without transparency, with no environmental protections, with burgeoning eminent domain, and with corruption and backstabbing make it worse.
- m4rtink 1y agoThis was pretty much compounded in the communist era - it was the state doing the environmental destruction & it was doing it for the most holly purpose of PROGRESS and HEAVY INDUSTRY. So if you wanted to point out we are all gonna get poisoned to death and worse, you would not only be saying the state is wrong (impossible!) but that attacking its most its most important endeavors (reactionary provocateur, shoot on sight!!). Like, in the capitalist countries you could at least say all the mercury in the fish is causing spike in birth defects without ending up in gulag.
- titzer 1y ago> in the capitalist countries Again, you mean the countries that didn't have authoritarian, unaccountable governments, where citizens have not only a history of free expression, but they constitutionally guaranteed rights. Whereas in the communist regimes they universally have been repressive, corrupt, brutal, stupid, and usually self-defeating. > it was doing it for the most holly purpose of PROGRESS and HEAVY INDUSTRY. Oh yeah, it was fucked. But the globalist capitalist society of today that can't survive without overconsumption and perpetual exponential growth isn't a whole lot better. It promises everyone that their greed is good and that billionaires are saints. For the time being we're awash in widgets and titillating entertainment, but dwindling resources and shocks to the biosphere will have their consequences. At least the communist regimes have had the good grace to fall apart once in a while.
- ivan_gammel 1y agoCorrelation does not mean causation. In that historical period environmental consequences of industrialization were not well known and greener solutions did not exist. Communist governments chose the easiest and fastest path back then. We do not know what would be their choice or how it would complicate establishing communist regimes today.
- animal_spirits 1y agoI will point out that in capitalist systems, the money saved by the efficiencies can be put towards more environmentally positive products and technologies. Electric cars for example were very expensive, and it was the wealthy that were able to demand them, drive the market, push prices down so more middle class families can afford them. This is happening again with compostable plastics, B-corps that are more circular, efficient/recyclable packaging solutions, and other parts of our industry.
- ImJamal 1y ago> Oh, and that little looming thing about environmental consequences Communists weren't great for the environment either. Look up the Aral Sea.