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I’m very happy others are documenting their heat pump installs. It confirms three things for me. 1. Contractor quality is the biggest pain for the adoption o

I’m very happy others are documenting their heat pump installs. It confirms three things for me. 1. Contractor quality is the biggest pain for the adoption of residential green tech. 2. Old homes (if not historic) should get depreciated aggressively by the market to the point that knock downs make sense. Japan does this. 3. DIY is has the hidden benefit of speed/quality/cost, since contractor pain is high. Yes, I understand the massive opportunity costs. A friend of mine is trying to install a new central heat pump in their home. The only thing stopping them is contractors being hard to work with. Not price. Here’s my DIY install. https://www.ratchetwerks.com/heat-pump-mini-split-install https://www.ratchetwerks.com/heat-pump-mini-split-install

rjsw 1y ago
Your link to the Mitsubishi support site doesn't seem correct.
- RatchetWerks 1y ago
  I just checked the link. I believe it is correct. The domain name looks sketchy, but it has all the nitty gritty engineering data. If I remember correctly, I think I found a link from the actual Mitsubishi website linking to it
  - rjsw 1y ago
    Did you try connecting to the server? A Google search on the hostname does return entries for Mitsubishi, DNS points to AWS.
    - RatchetWerks 1y ago
      Yes. I might be missing something obvious. Are we talking about the my link drive website? If so, yes. I clicked the link from my website and it took me straight to the website with no issue. I might be misunderstanding something
      - balfirevic 1y ago
        If we're talking about https://mylinkdrive.com/USA/M_Series https://mylinkdrive.com/USA/M_Series I also can't access it, I get: This site can’t be reached Check if there is a typo in mylinkdrive.com. DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN
        RatchetWerks 1y ago
        Hmmmm. That’s is VERY odd. That links resolves fine in my phone . I’m US based. I wonder if they have some sort of geo blocking
        stordoff 1y ago
        According to https://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/mylinkdrive.com https://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/mylinkdrive.com, it resolves in most of the US locations and in Japan, China, and Singapore, but fails elsewhere. https://dnschecker.org/#A/mylinkdrive.com https://dnschecker.org/#A/mylinkdrive.com gives similar results - resolves fine in North America (US/Canada/Mexico) and a few other counties (Brazil/Ireland/Russia/China, and one of the two Australia sites), but fails elsewhere (including in Singapore). Geoblocking seems like a possibility.
        cjrp 1y ago
        Fails in the UK.
conductr 1y ago
I also DIY a lot of things like this and find it really ironic how the DIY YouTubers I learn from are constantly better than a majority of professionals, especially given the insane costs they charge (I often see 3-4x equipment cost in my area).
- raincom 1y ago
  DIY YouTubers read books, experiment, learn from others, and do extra-research. Most of the trades people are not doing any of that stuff. Almost all residential trades are poorly trained: many go to some trade school, get a job at a local contractor who doesn't want to further train. Unions are good at training; however, they want people to spend four years as an apprentice.
  - weaksauce 1y ago
    the DIY youtubers also know they will get a thorough drubbing in the comment section and may even lose subscribers if they do it to a poor level. the incentives for shortcuts on a job site by a worker are to get the job done(good enough for a layperson) and leave.
  - rasz 1y ago
    As soon as you learn enough you can start your own business and become the Boss client sees only twice :)
    - conductr 1y ago
      That’s kind of the problem, you don’t need to learn much at all/anything to do this right now. Because the bosses of the world aren’t enforcing any standards in terms of craftsmanship or quality of work. They pretty much just show up to see how much of a mess has been made and how quickly they can patch it up in order to ask for final payment or whatever is needed for completion
- bityard 1y ago
  The main reason I diy most of my home and car repairs is that 90% of the contractors and mechanics I have used over the years have been shockingly incompetent. Their communication skills are crap, they cut corners at every opportunity, sometimes straight up lie, and treat every customer like an idiot. There is huge gap in the market for tradespeople who take their work even semi-seriously.
stego-tech 1y ago
> Old homes (if not historic) should get depreciated aggressively by the market to the point that knock downs make sense. This doesn’t get shouted nearly enough. >90% of New England housing stock older than 30 years is not remotely worth the price they’re commanding. They’re either dumpster fires of knob-tube wiring and sagging floors, or contractor “spray foam specials” that make deliberate errors like the OP’s post points out. Yet because zoning laws are strongly tilted in favor of existing owners (and who are predominantly NIMBYs), it makes teardowns a costly affair on their own - and getting approval to build a new structure can take years, if at all. Housing shouldn’t be disposable, but it should be readily replaceable with modern techniques and efficiency gains, provided it’s up to local code.
- SmellTheGlove 1y ago
  I agree with you in principle, but 30 years is probably the wrong number. I have a house in coastal Maine, built in 1997. It's coming up on 30 years. I assure you, it's vastly different than the my first house (1941) or my last (1953), in good ways. But to your point, we consider way too much to be "historic" and I'd like for that to change. You really should be able to tear down almost anything you'd like and rebuild as long as it's to code/zoning, and zoning needs to be cut back to things like dimensions and use, not appearance. Being old shouldn't make something eligible for historic preservation on its own.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Code should be about fire safety for the fire department if it burns. if you can't build on the lot then it needs to be because of something there - or if they are planning to build it (a new utility) then they need to rebuy the easement every 10 years until they do. Height is limited only by airport flight lines. everything else is none of your business. (Okay, I might have missed something but it is on those lines)
    - cryptonector 1y ago
      Height (number of units, really) is limited mainly by the bandwidth of the roads, water mains, and sewers in the area. These are things that are expensive, very expensive to expand. Of course in practice height is firstly limited by zoning to protect existing properties' owners, but you can't ignore the infrastructure needed for larger buildings.
bboygravity 1y ago
How is a plain old AC suddenly considered "green tech" and renamed to "heat pump" in Europe?
- asteroidburger 1y ago
  A heat pump is an air conditioner that can run in reverse. In the winter, it provides heat; summer, it provides cooling. It's greener because it's not burning fossil fuels (directly, anyway) vs. a propane / natural gas furnace, and it's more efficient than resistive heating.
  - balfirevic 1y ago
    > A heat pump is an air conditioner that can run in reverse Is this really the correct terminology? I'd say every AC is a heat pump, whether or not it can run in reverse, because that's how it works. It pumps heat from a colder place to a warmer place. If it has been crippled so that it can't run in reverse, that's crappy and unfortunate, but it makes it no less of a heat pump.
    - Brian_K_White 1y ago
      Kind of a pointless observation. The words "air conditioner" don't literally mean much at all. It doesn't refer to a humidifier or a hepa filter for instance, yet the term air conditioner has a distinct meaning that is silly to try to pretend not to recognize. Same for heat pump.
      - balfirevic 1y ago
        I view "heat pump" as a technical term describing how some heaters/coolers/dehumidifiers/clothes driers/fridges work. Wikipedia seems to somewhat agree with me, although article about heat pumps seems focused on space heaters and coolers. > yet the term air conditioner has a distinct meaning that is silly to try to pretend not to recognize Well, yes, in US it apparently means "heat pump based space cooler". Where I live it means "heat pump based space heater and cooler".
SmellTheGlove 1y ago
How did you charge your unit? Did you learn how to do that and get the EPA certificate or did you convince someone to come out and do that?
- tguvot 1y ago
  There are minisplits that are precharged. For example mrcool. Very easy installation. No need to vacuum anything Have few friends who got certificates in order to charge their
- RatchetWerks 1y ago
  Great question. The unit is pre charged for 25 feet of lineset . I was right at the limit for my install. I installed the lines, did all the vacuum related work. Then just cracked the valve on the unit to distribute the refrigerant. I had a bottle of refrigerant on standby from a buddy. Didn’t need to use it . I was going to get the EPA cert, if my buddy didn’t exist. I heard it’s super straightforward
  - 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
    The vacuum work, finding/fixing leaks, etc can be a real nightmare, even with the expensive equipment. Personally I would much rather pay an HVAC technician to just come and pull the vacuum. They already have the gear, and they can diagnose when your vacuum still doesn't pull all the way for the 3rd time. Then if you don't get a precharged unit, they can also fill it.
    - alliao 1y ago
      that is IF the technician cares enough... unless you guys have stringent regulatory/right incentives in place. sometimes tech just relies on the brand reputation and pull for 10mins calls it a day
triyambakam 1y ago
> depreciated Sorry but it's deprecated
- atombender 1y ago
  Depreciate means to lower the estimated value of something. Pretty sure that's what GP meant. "Deprecate" doesn't fit here.
  - triyambakam 1y ago
    Oh you're right, I misread :(
tgsovlerkhgsel 1y ago
DIY also often has the benefit of being the only option when bureaucratic hurdles are in the way. Sometimes, approvals (from the government or from the landlord) are required, which can be hard, onerous, impossible or time-consuming to get. Ignoring those requirements is often the most practical way with very limited negative consequences. It also allows using much cheaper units - from what I've heard in Germany the unit (without the install cost!) will cost 2x as much when installed through an official installer compared to a high quality free-market option, but of course the installer will only install units sold through them so many people may be priced out of the legal route completely.
- tguvot 1y ago
  in bay area, install costs for $2k unit are $6k-$8k (took multiple quotes. 3 years ago). very simple install in garage through the wall. "hardest" part was adding 240v disconnect (electrician did it for $300 or so).
  - grepfru_it 1y ago
    You don’t get the “full warranty” when you DIY hvac installs. You also need to call a licensed hvac tech to charge your system if it doesn’t come precharged. Mini splits are easy and I would 1000% DIY. Big, attic mount blower units I would leave to the pros for so many reasons. That said my cousin installed a 21 SEER unit for $5k. I was quoted $35k for the same system (:
    - tguvot 1y ago
      given installation price vs system price, it's possible to trash old one and buy a new few times for a price of professional install. mrcool also has ducted units that comes with precharged/vacuumed lines. very tempting as one of my hvacs lives on extended timeline and quote for a new one was $25k 2 years ago
    - dpifke 1y ago
      I haven't personally had need to do it (yet), but I know multiple people who got the EPA certification to be able to service their own equipment. It can be obtained by taking an online test. https://www.epa.gov/section608/section-608-technician-certification-requirements https://www.epa.gov/section608/section-608-technician-certif...
mythrwy 1y ago
I replaced my central air heat pump myself last spring. Outside unit and inside air exchange. The inside unit happened to fit pretty well with a little adjustment in the place the old one (from the 1980s) had been, and I made my own connections to the ductwork. I placed the 2 ton outside unit on the pad where the old one had been. I did have an AC company come and remove the Freon from the old unit, then I cut it up and took it to the scrap yard. I was able to do this with no vacuuming lines as they sell precharged kits with lines similar to mini splits. It's been over a year and it worked like a charm through summer and winter. It took about 5 days or a week including removing the old unit, pulling the lines under the house, setting the inside and outside units and buttoning everything up. The reason it even took a week was a I did it entirely myself including moving the units with roller logs. I saved over $6,000 from what I was quoted from an HVAC company which I felt was entirely worth a week of manual labor.

rjsw 1y ago

Your link to the Mitsubishi support site doesn't seem correct.

RatchetWerks 1y ago
I just checked the link. I believe it is correct. The domain name looks sketchy, but it has all the nitty gritty engineering data. If I remember correctly, I think I found a link from the actual Mitsubishi website linking to it
- rjsw 1y ago
  Did you try connecting to the server? A Google search on the hostname does return entries for Mitsubishi, DNS points to AWS.
  - RatchetWerks 1y ago
    Yes. I might be missing something obvious. Are we talking about the my link drive website? If so, yes. I clicked the link from my website and it took me straight to the website with no issue. I might be misunderstanding something
    - balfirevic 1y ago
      If we're talking about https://mylinkdrive.com/USA/M_Series https://mylinkdrive.com/USA/M_Series I also can't access it, I get: This site can’t be reached Check if there is a typo in mylinkdrive.com. DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN
      - RatchetWerks 1y ago
        Hmmmm. That’s is VERY odd. That links resolves fine in my phone . I’m US based. I wonder if they have some sort of geo blocking
        stordoff 1y ago
        According to https://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/mylinkdrive.com https://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/mylinkdrive.com, it resolves in most of the US locations and in Japan, China, and Singapore, but fails elsewhere. https://dnschecker.org/#A/mylinkdrive.com https://dnschecker.org/#A/mylinkdrive.com gives similar results - resolves fine in North America (US/Canada/Mexico) and a few other counties (Brazil/Ireland/Russia/China, and one of the two Australia sites), but fails elsewhere (including in Singapore). Geoblocking seems like a possibility.
      - cjrp 1y ago
        Fails in the UK.

conductr 1y ago

I also DIY a lot of things like this and find it really ironic how the DIY YouTubers I learn from are constantly better than a majority of professionals, especially given the insane costs they charge (I often see 3-4x equipment cost in my area).

raincom 1y ago
DIY YouTubers read books, experiment, learn from others, and do extra-research. Most of the trades people are not doing any of that stuff. Almost all residential trades are poorly trained: many go to some trade school, get a job at a local contractor who doesn't want to further train. Unions are good at training; however, they want people to spend four years as an apprentice.
- weaksauce 1y ago
  the DIY youtubers also know they will get a thorough drubbing in the comment section and may even lose subscribers if they do it to a poor level. the incentives for shortcuts on a job site by a worker are to get the job done(good enough for a layperson) and leave.
- rasz 1y ago
  As soon as you learn enough you can start your own business and become the Boss client sees only twice :)
  - conductr 1y ago
    That’s kind of the problem, you don’t need to learn much at all/anything to do this right now. Because the bosses of the world aren’t enforcing any standards in terms of craftsmanship or quality of work. They pretty much just show up to see how much of a mess has been made and how quickly they can patch it up in order to ask for final payment or whatever is needed for completion
bityard 1y ago
The main reason I diy most of my home and car repairs is that 90% of the contractors and mechanics I have used over the years have been shockingly incompetent. Their communication skills are crap, they cut corners at every opportunity, sometimes straight up lie, and treat every customer like an idiot. There is huge gap in the market for tradespeople who take their work even semi-seriously.

stego-tech 1y ago

> Old homes (if not historic) should get depreciated aggressively by the market to the point that knock downs make sense. This doesn’t get shouted nearly enough. >90% of New England housing stock older than 30 years is not remotely worth the price they’re commanding. They’re either dumpster fires of knob-tube wiring and sagging floors, or contractor “spray foam specials” that make deliberate errors like the OP’s post points out. Yet because zoning laws are strongly tilted in favor of existing owners (and who are predominantly NIMBYs), it makes teardowns a costly affair on their own - and getting approval to build a new structure can take years, if at all. Housing shouldn’t be disposable, but it should be readily replaceable with modern techniques and efficiency gains, provided it’s up to local code.

SmellTheGlove 1y ago
I agree with you in principle, but 30 years is probably the wrong number. I have a house in coastal Maine, built in 1997. It's coming up on 30 years. I assure you, it's vastly different than the my first house (1941) or my last (1953), in good ways. But to your point, we consider way too much to be "historic" and I'd like for that to change. You really should be able to tear down almost anything you'd like and rebuild as long as it's to code/zoning, and zoning needs to be cut back to things like dimensions and use, not appearance. Being old shouldn't make something eligible for historic preservation on its own.
- bluGill 1y ago
  Code should be about fire safety for the fire department if it burns. if you can't build on the lot then it needs to be because of something there - or if they are planning to build it (a new utility) then they need to rebuy the easement every 10 years until they do. Height is limited only by airport flight lines. everything else is none of your business. (Okay, I might have missed something but it is on those lines)
  - cryptonector 1y ago
    Height (number of units, really) is limited mainly by the bandwidth of the roads, water mains, and sewers in the area. These are things that are expensive, very expensive to expand. Of course in practice height is firstly limited by zoning to protect existing properties' owners, but you can't ignore the infrastructure needed for larger buildings.

bboygravity 1y ago

How is a plain old AC suddenly considered "green tech" and renamed to "heat pump" in Europe?

asteroidburger 1y ago
A heat pump is an air conditioner that can run in reverse. In the winter, it provides heat; summer, it provides cooling. It's greener because it's not burning fossil fuels (directly, anyway) vs. a propane / natural gas furnace, and it's more efficient than resistive heating.
- balfirevic 1y ago
  > A heat pump is an air conditioner that can run in reverse Is this really the correct terminology? I'd say every AC is a heat pump, whether or not it can run in reverse, because that's how it works. It pumps heat from a colder place to a warmer place. If it has been crippled so that it can't run in reverse, that's crappy and unfortunate, but it makes it no less of a heat pump.
  - Brian_K_White 1y ago
    Kind of a pointless observation. The words "air conditioner" don't literally mean much at all. It doesn't refer to a humidifier or a hepa filter for instance, yet the term air conditioner has a distinct meaning that is silly to try to pretend not to recognize. Same for heat pump.
    - balfirevic 1y ago
      I view "heat pump" as a technical term describing how some heaters/coolers/dehumidifiers/clothes driers/fridges work. Wikipedia seems to somewhat agree with me, although article about heat pumps seems focused on space heaters and coolers. > yet the term air conditioner has a distinct meaning that is silly to try to pretend not to recognize Well, yes, in US it apparently means "heat pump based space cooler". Where I live it means "heat pump based space heater and cooler".

SmellTheGlove 1y ago

How did you charge your unit? Did you learn how to do that and get the EPA certificate or did you convince someone to come out and do that?

tguvot 1y ago
There are minisplits that are precharged. For example mrcool. Very easy installation. No need to vacuum anything Have few friends who got certificates in order to charge their
RatchetWerks 1y ago
Great question. The unit is pre charged for 25 feet of lineset . I was right at the limit for my install. I installed the lines, did all the vacuum related work. Then just cracked the valve on the unit to distribute the refrigerant. I had a bottle of refrigerant on standby from a buddy. Didn’t need to use it . I was going to get the EPA cert, if my buddy didn’t exist. I heard it’s super straightforward
- 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
  The vacuum work, finding/fixing leaks, etc can be a real nightmare, even with the expensive equipment. Personally I would much rather pay an HVAC technician to just come and pull the vacuum. They already have the gear, and they can diagnose when your vacuum still doesn't pull all the way for the 3rd time. Then if you don't get a precharged unit, they can also fill it.
  - alliao 1y ago
    that is IF the technician cares enough... unless you guys have stringent regulatory/right incentives in place. sometimes tech just relies on the brand reputation and pull for 10mins calls it a day

triyambakam 1y ago

> depreciated Sorry but it's deprecated

atombender 1y ago
Depreciate means to lower the estimated value of something. Pretty sure that's what GP meant. "Deprecate" doesn't fit here.
- triyambakam 1y ago
  Oh you're right, I misread :(

tgsovlerkhgsel 1y ago

DIY also often has the benefit of being the only option when bureaucratic hurdles are in the way. Sometimes, approvals (from the government or from the landlord) are required, which can be hard, onerous, impossible or time-consuming to get. Ignoring those requirements is often the most practical way with very limited negative consequences. It also allows using much cheaper units - from what I've heard in Germany the unit (without the install cost!) will cost 2x as much when installed through an official installer compared to a high quality free-market option, but of course the installer will only install units sold through them so many people may be priced out of the legal route completely.

tguvot 1y ago
in bay area, install costs for $2k unit are $6k-$8k (took multiple quotes. 3 years ago). very simple install in garage through the wall. "hardest" part was adding 240v disconnect (electrician did it for $300 or so).
- grepfru_it 1y ago
  You don’t get the “full warranty” when you DIY hvac installs. You also need to call a licensed hvac tech to charge your system if it doesn’t come precharged. Mini splits are easy and I would 1000% DIY. Big, attic mount blower units I would leave to the pros for so many reasons. That said my cousin installed a 21 SEER unit for $5k. I was quoted $35k for the same system (:
  - tguvot 1y ago
    given installation price vs system price, it's possible to trash old one and buy a new few times for a price of professional install. mrcool also has ducted units that comes with precharged/vacuumed lines. very tempting as one of my hvacs lives on extended timeline and quote for a new one was $25k 2 years ago
  - dpifke 1y ago
    I haven't personally had need to do it (yet), but I know multiple people who got the EPA certification to be able to service their own equipment. It can be obtained by taking an online test. https://www.epa.gov/section608/section-608-technician-certification-requirements https://www.epa.gov/section608/section-608-technician-certif...

mythrwy 1y ago

I replaced my central air heat pump myself last spring. Outside unit and inside air exchange. The inside unit happened to fit pretty well with a little adjustment in the place the old one (from the 1980s) had been, and I made my own connections to the ductwork. I placed the 2 ton outside unit on the pad where the old one had been. I did have an AC company come and remove the Freon from the old unit, then I cut it up and took it to the scrap yard. I was able to do this with no vacuuming lines as they sell precharged kits with lines similar to mini splits. It's been over a year and it worked like a charm through summer and winter. It took about 5 days or a week including removing the old unit, pulling the lines under the house, setting the inside and outside units and buttoning everything up. The reason it even took a week was a I did it entirely myself including moving the units with roller logs. I saved over $6,000 from what I was quoted from an HVAC company which I felt was entirely worth a week of manual labor.