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No diesel engine is made well these days in my opinion, at least as far as passenger vehicles go. Emissions systems on diesel engines have made the reliability

No diesel engine is made well these days in my opinion, at least as far as passenger vehicles go. Emissions systems on diesel engines have made the reliability pretty abysmal. That's not to say improving emissions isn't a good goal, but it was implemented terribly. Between regulators over prescribing solutions and car companies finding the quickest and cheapest "fix" every step of the way, we ended with horribly complex motors that break down much earlier than before. It'd be interesting to see a comparison of total emissions when a 90s diesel is still on the road today compared to a newer diesel that is effectively junk in 10 years or a couple hundred thousand miles.

amluto 1y ago
Given that one single old car without functioning emission controls will stink up an entire block far more than that entire block full of ordinary, modern traffic, I would expect that the (non-CO2) air pollution from an old diesel is far higher than that from building and operating new diesel vehicles.
- formerly_proven 1y ago
  Even then, a EURO5 diesel still makes quite a stink. Of course, even an EU6+OPF gasoline car still puts out air akin to a dying dog's fart. ICE vehicles just can't go away quickly enough (and we should aggressively get stinky vehicles like everything pre-EU5 and loud vehicles like motorcycles and scooters off the road first). I'm not huge on regulation, but if anything MIV is underregulated. Even in the EU anything that was street-legal at some point in the past 70 years is grandfathered in, nevermind that illegal vehicle modifications - if caught - at most earn a slap on the wrist. That's enormously dumb and doesn't fly anywhere else.
  - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
    I can’t wait for tiny engines like on things like weed eaters and leaf blowers to go extinct. Noisy, smelly as hell, generally awful.
    - cperciva 1y ago
      A lot of cities have banned them now, at least for personal use. (Last time this was debated in my area, some businesses had justifications for why they couldn't just use electric tools, but none of those applied to regular homeowners.)
      - SoftTalker 1y ago
        A lawn service that is working 8-10 hours a day can't use battery tools unless they buy a lot of batteries and/or have a way to recharge them in the field (from a gasoline-powered generator, most likely). So their complaint has some validity.
        senorrib 1y ago
        BS. Gasoline is just more convenient and cheaper for them. 40V batteries last long enough that you only need a handful of them to last a whole day.
        SoftTalker 1y ago
        I have 40V electric lawn mower. It takes nearly the full charge on two batteries to cut my average suburban-sized lawn. Sometimes I can't even complete it on that depending how tall the grass is. Add in edge trimming and blowing away the clippings and then multiply that by a number of lawns or larger properties and I think you would need dozens of batteries. BTW "more convenient and cheaper" are strong arguments when you're in a competitive business. Lawn services are usually just a guy with a truck hustling for customers. The more lawns you can cut the more money you make. Anything that causes downtime such as running out of charged batteries is going to be a large negative.
        Thlom 1y ago
        Insane that there's a market for a dude with a lawn mower these days when you can get a good enough robot mower for $1000 ...
  - _heimdall 1y ago
    > ICE vehicles just can't go away quickly enough We do have to either replace them with something else or stop owning personal vehicles. The end goal may be better, but that transition will be long and it will break plenty of things along the way.
    - speedgoose 1y ago
      Transition is almost done around Oslo, and we are doing fine.
      - _heimdall 1y ago
        Do people there only use cars around town or for short road trips? I know the trains in Sweden were great when I was there a few years ago, I assume Norway would be similar.
        speedgoose 1y ago
        A classic usage is driving to the cabin. Now, yes few people drive as far as possible without breaks.
        nairboon 1y ago
        > Do people there only use cars around town or for short road trips? Modern mid-size EVs have a range of more than 400-500km. To put this into perspective, the drive from Oslo to Bergen, the other end of the country (latitudinal) is about 460km and takes 7h. You could possibly make that without even recharging, if you manage to sit still, without a break, for 7 hours.
    - iknowstuff 1y ago
      It really doesn’t have to. I’d say look at Norway but you’ll dismiss it as a rich country without looking up the actual reason behind their transition’s success. I’d say look at China but you’d say yeah but that’s China. We can make the same decision and move fast in the direction, we just choose not to
- WarOnPrivacy 1y ago
  > one single old car without functioning emission controls will stink up an entire block far more than that entire block full of ordinary, modern traffic My son's 1963 Dart (daily driver) puts out far less smell than a lot of pickup trucks in this neighborhood. And the Dart is certainly cleaner than modern choker-style pickup trucks.

amluto 1y ago

Given that one single old car without functioning emission controls will stink up an entire block far more than that entire block full of ordinary, modern traffic, I would expect that the (non-CO2) air pollution from an old diesel is far higher than that from building and operating new diesel vehicles.

formerly_proven 1y ago
Even then, a EURO5 diesel still makes quite a stink. Of course, even an EU6+OPF gasoline car still puts out air akin to a dying dog's fart. ICE vehicles just can't go away quickly enough (and we should aggressively get stinky vehicles like everything pre-EU5 and loud vehicles like motorcycles and scooters off the road first). I'm not huge on regulation, but if anything MIV is underregulated. Even in the EU anything that was street-legal at some point in the past 70 years is grandfathered in, nevermind that illegal vehicle modifications - if caught - at most earn a slap on the wrist. That's enormously dumb and doesn't fly anywhere else.
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  I can’t wait for tiny engines like on things like weed eaters and leaf blowers to go extinct. Noisy, smelly as hell, generally awful.
  - cperciva 1y ago
    A lot of cities have banned them now, at least for personal use. (Last time this was debated in my area, some businesses had justifications for why they couldn't just use electric tools, but none of those applied to regular homeowners.)
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      A lawn service that is working 8-10 hours a day can't use battery tools unless they buy a lot of batteries and/or have a way to recharge them in the field (from a gasoline-powered generator, most likely). So their complaint has some validity.
      - senorrib 1y ago
        BS. Gasoline is just more convenient and cheaper for them. 40V batteries last long enough that you only need a handful of them to last a whole day.
        SoftTalker 1y ago
        I have 40V electric lawn mower. It takes nearly the full charge on two batteries to cut my average suburban-sized lawn. Sometimes I can't even complete it on that depending how tall the grass is. Add in edge trimming and blowing away the clippings and then multiply that by a number of lawns or larger properties and I think you would need dozens of batteries. BTW "more convenient and cheaper" are strong arguments when you're in a competitive business. Lawn services are usually just a guy with a truck hustling for customers. The more lawns you can cut the more money you make. Anything that causes downtime such as running out of charged batteries is going to be a large negative.
        Thlom 1y ago
        Insane that there's a market for a dude with a lawn mower these days when you can get a good enough robot mower for $1000 ...
- _heimdall 1y ago
  > ICE vehicles just can't go away quickly enough We do have to either replace them with something else or stop owning personal vehicles. The end goal may be better, but that transition will be long and it will break plenty of things along the way.
  - speedgoose 1y ago
    Transition is almost done around Oslo, and we are doing fine.
    - _heimdall 1y ago
      Do people there only use cars around town or for short road trips? I know the trains in Sweden were great when I was there a few years ago, I assume Norway would be similar.
      - speedgoose 1y ago
        A classic usage is driving to the cabin. Now, yes few people drive as far as possible without breaks.
      - nairboon 1y ago
        > Do people there only use cars around town or for short road trips? Modern mid-size EVs have a range of more than 400-500km. To put this into perspective, the drive from Oslo to Bergen, the other end of the country (latitudinal) is about 460km and takes 7h. You could possibly make that without even recharging, if you manage to sit still, without a break, for 7 hours.
  - iknowstuff 1y ago
    It really doesn’t have to. I’d say look at Norway but you’ll dismiss it as a rich country without looking up the actual reason behind their transition’s success. I’d say look at China but you’d say yeah but that’s China. We can make the same decision and move fast in the direction, we just choose not to
WarOnPrivacy 1y ago
> one single old car without functioning emission controls will stink up an entire block far more than that entire block full of ordinary, modern traffic My son's 1963 Dart (daily driver) puts out far less smell than a lot of pickup trucks in this neighborhood. And the Dart is certainly cleaner than modern choker-style pickup trucks.