6 ms·

Chat control is bad, but it was voted out multiple times already, and is fundamentally incompatible with several member states' constitutions (based on a commen

by gf000 1y ago

Chat control is bad, but it was voted out multiple times already, and is fundamentally incompatible with several member states' constitutions (based on a comment, didn't read more into it, but I believe Romania and Germany, among others). They just try to push it through when people are occupied with something else, which is very unfortunate (and they (who?) should be punished for it, I would want a society that "cancels" these politicians immediately for supporting such an anti-freedom policy), but that's it. The EU is still a shining beacon of democracy in the world.

anon191928 1y ago
oh yeah, democracy with actual, real kingdoms (10 of them or how many?) kings and constitutions that gives real rights to king. Const. that actually puts king above law and says "sacrosanct". what democracy? Yeah some of them have it but not EU and all.
- sandermvanvliet 1y ago
  Most are constitutional monarchies in which the monarch is a head of state with no or very limited political power. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchies_in_Europe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchies_in_Europe
  - oblio 1y ago
    Not most, all EU member monarchies are constitutional monarchies.
    - hoppp 1y ago
      The royal family is not above the law. They are just above people
- andrepd 1y ago
  There's so many actual reasons to complain about lack of democracy at the EU level; constitutional monarchies are certainly not one of them.
- maxhille 1y ago
  Give me the name of any country - and I'll tell you why it is not really a democracy.
- bsoles 1y ago
  Why the downvotes? A democratic country should not have kings and queens, regardless of whether they have real power or not. Why should a person be so special in a democracy just because they have the right ancestors?
  - 6510 1y ago
    They function as safeguards against a truly insane government. If they live up to that expectation I don't know but I suppose it's better than nothing. I pay about one Euro per month for ours. I can afford it. The king also has very high approval rating. People don't want him removed.
  - immibis 1y ago
    In the Commonwealth at least, the monarch or their representative is basically just acting as the failsafe that decides if the government is fucked and needs to be turned off and on again.
latexr 1y ago
> Chat control is bad, but it was voted out multiple times already It’s gaining momentum again, so let’s not rest on past victories. https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-2b-dual-tranche-note-sale-fund-buybacks-acquisitions https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-2b-dual-tranche-note... I do agree with your overall point.
- xeonmc 1y ago
  The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, etc.
- dev_hugepages 1y ago
  You shared an article about a cryptocurrency exchange?
  - latexr 1y ago
    Not sure what happened there, I thought I copied the link directly from an HN submission. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44811564 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44811564 Anyway, this should be the correct link. Thank you for Pointing it out. https://cointelegraph.com/news/eu-chat-control-plan-gains-support-threatens-encryption https://cointelegraph.com/news/eu-chat-control-plan-gains-su...
    - pyker 1y ago
      It's one of those news websites that shows you another article when you scroll down, and changes the URL to match it.
      - latexr 1y ago
        That explains it. The link in my first post is the article directly below the one I wanted to share.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
pqtyw 1y ago
> The EU is still a shining beacon of democracy in the world. The EU as a collection/union of sovereign countries? Sure. As an organization itself the EU is not particularly democratic or it was every designed to be a democracy. Its entirely by indirect appointees and unelected bureaucrats with minimal supervision..
- oblio 1y ago
  There are direct elections for the parliament. Those "indirect appointees" are the heads of government of each state, it's as direct as it could possibly get. And the "unelected bureaucrats" are just... bureaucrats. That's how governments are run the world over, even in places like Switzerland. Or does your country vote regularly for the Director of Rail Transportation in your Ministry of Transportation? Or the Director of Lower Education in your Ministry of Education? If your country holds referendums for that, your country is, sorry to inform you, bats**t crazy. Let's please stop spreading anti EU propaganda and adress real concerns. For example the EU needs a full blown border protection agency and external EU border protection should be a 100% EU matter, not a member state matter. The EU should have a unified digital market. Etc.
  - raron 1y ago
    > There are direct elections for the parliament. Not really, you vote for parties local to your country. You can not vote for EP parties directly. Anyways, ProtectEU, the new "break all encryption if chatcontrol fails" was proposed by a secret group, whose identities still not known. That's even farer away from a good and democratic institution than unelected bureaucrats. I don't think calling these anti-EU-propaganda is a good thing, they are valid criticism (even if the EU is mainly a good thing), and they should be addressed at some point in time.
    - oblio 1y ago
      > Not really, you vote for parties local to your country. You can not vote for EP parties directly. The people in the EU parliament are people you vote for, directly.
KronisLV 1y ago
> Chat control is bad, but it was voted out multiple times already, and is fundamentally incompatible with several member states' constitutions (based on a comment, didn't read more into it, but I believe Romania and Germany, among others). Why on earth couldn't the member states vote for safeguards AGAINST initiatives like that, so they can't repeatedly keep trying?
- immibis 1y ago
  Because for some shitty reason the EU is set up so only a consortium of governments can propose laws, then an elected parliament only says yes or no but can't propose its own laws.

by gf000 1y ago

anon191928 1y ago

oh yeah, democracy with actual, real kingdoms (10 of them or how many?) kings and constitutions that gives real rights to king. Const. that actually puts king above law and says "sacrosanct". what democracy? Yeah some of them have it but not EU and all.

sandermvanvliet 1y ago
Most are constitutional monarchies in which the monarch is a head of state with no or very limited political power. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchies_in_Europe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchies_in_Europe
- oblio 1y ago
  Not most, all EU member monarchies are constitutional monarchies.
  - hoppp 1y ago
    The royal family is not above the law. They are just above people
andrepd 1y ago
There's so many actual reasons to complain about lack of democracy at the EU level; constitutional monarchies are certainly not one of them.
maxhille 1y ago
Give me the name of any country - and I'll tell you why it is not really a democracy.
bsoles 1y ago
Why the downvotes? A democratic country should not have kings and queens, regardless of whether they have real power or not. Why should a person be so special in a democracy just because they have the right ancestors?
- 6510 1y ago
  They function as safeguards against a truly insane government. If they live up to that expectation I don't know but I suppose it's better than nothing. I pay about one Euro per month for ours. I can afford it. The king also has very high approval rating. People don't want him removed.
- immibis 1y ago
  In the Commonwealth at least, the monarch or their representative is basically just acting as the failsafe that decides if the government is fucked and needs to be turned off and on again.

latexr 1y ago

> Chat control is bad, but it was voted out multiple times already It’s gaining momentum again, so let’s not rest on past victories. https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-2b-dual-tranche-note-sale-fund-buybacks-acquisitions https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-2b-dual-tranche-note... I do agree with your overall point.

xeonmc 1y ago
The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, etc.
dev_hugepages 1y ago
You shared an article about a cryptocurrency exchange?
- latexr 1y ago
  Not sure what happened there, I thought I copied the link directly from an HN submission. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44811564 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44811564 Anyway, this should be the correct link. Thank you for Pointing it out. https://cointelegraph.com/news/eu-chat-control-plan-gains-support-threatens-encryption https://cointelegraph.com/news/eu-chat-control-plan-gains-su...
  - pyker 1y ago
    It's one of those news websites that shows you another article when you scroll down, and changes the URL to match it.
    - latexr 1y ago
      That explains it. The link in my first post is the article directly below the one I wanted to share.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

pqtyw 1y ago

> The EU is still a shining beacon of democracy in the world. The EU as a collection/union of sovereign countries? Sure. As an organization itself the EU is not particularly democratic or it was every designed to be a democracy. Its entirely by indirect appointees and unelected bureaucrats with minimal supervision..

oblio 1y ago
There are direct elections for the parliament. Those "indirect appointees" are the heads of government of each state, it's as direct as it could possibly get. And the "unelected bureaucrats" are just... bureaucrats. That's how governments are run the world over, even in places like Switzerland. Or does your country vote regularly for the Director of Rail Transportation in your Ministry of Transportation? Or the Director of Lower Education in your Ministry of Education? If your country holds referendums for that, your country is, sorry to inform you, bats**t crazy. Let's please stop spreading anti EU propaganda and adress real concerns. For example the EU needs a full blown border protection agency and external EU border protection should be a 100% EU matter, not a member state matter. The EU should have a unified digital market. Etc.
- raron 1y ago
  > There are direct elections for the parliament. Not really, you vote for parties local to your country. You can not vote for EP parties directly. Anyways, ProtectEU, the new "break all encryption if chatcontrol fails" was proposed by a secret group, whose identities still not known. That's even farer away from a good and democratic institution than unelected bureaucrats. I don't think calling these anti-EU-propaganda is a good thing, they are valid criticism (even if the EU is mainly a good thing), and they should be addressed at some point in time.
  - oblio 1y ago
    > Not really, you vote for parties local to your country. You can not vote for EP parties directly. The people in the EU parliament are people you vote for, directly.

KronisLV 1y ago

> Chat control is bad, but it was voted out multiple times already, and is fundamentally incompatible with several member states' constitutions (based on a comment, didn't read more into it, but I believe Romania and Germany, among others). Why on earth couldn't the member states vote for safeguards AGAINST initiatives like that, so they can't repeatedly keep trying?

immibis 1y ago
Because for some shitty reason the EU is set up so only a consortium of governments can propose laws, then an elected parliament only says yes or no but can't propose its own laws.