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Aside from really terrible home experiences for a tiny minority, a part time job for a 15 year old doesn’t need a “livable wage” We don’t need kids working in

Aside from really terrible home experiences for a tiny minority, a part time job for a 15 year old doesn’t need a “livable wage” We don’t need kids working in coal mines but we also don’t need to make it near impossible for them to get work experience at a part time job because their skill level doesn’t align with $20/hr.

dvrj101 1y ago
solution : youth wage, below the standard minimum for the first year of work but that's not good enough for people who decided to close business because they cannot exploit anymore.
- unnamed76ri 1y ago
  California is home to the largest number of illegal immigrants being exploited for cheap farm labor. If CA really cared about exploited people, they would have done something about that. And by done something, I don’t mean encouraging and protecting its continuation.
  - lotsofpulp 1y ago
    Border controls and dealing with illegal immigration is under federal jurisdiction. What do you expect California to do about it?
    - miley_cyrus 1y ago
      How about not encourage and exacerbate illegal immigration? https://mayor.lacity.gov/news/mayor-bass-issues-executive-directive-support-immigrant-communities https://mayor.lacity.gov/news/mayor-bass-issues-executive-di...
      - dvrj101 1y ago
        where's the raid on drug sellers, distributors or human trafficking. Avg people trying to make living getting arrested right at court's doorstep is not crackdown on crime by illegals. some guy working 8-12 hours shift, has family and participate in community programs is suddenly getting deported to nowhere is making America safe again ? This looks more like making lowest white people better than everyone else
  - dvrj101 1y ago
    typical bootlickers response to deflect from uplifting lower class people. Either move it to crying illegal immigrants or they already have enough with social welfare lol. It's amazing how you'll defend top 1% getting tax cut's when we need a small part of it actually help avg. person's anxiety of not living paycheck to paycheck. Decades of tax cut's for top financial class did not workout of everyone else, the extra money did not trickle down but was used to buy politicians to get more tax payer money Raising minimum wage will close down businesses depending on exploitation and help businesses who are ethical enough to give working class their fair share.
    - roenxi 1y ago
      We know what uplifting lower class people looks like - the formula that works as seen in Asia, Europe and the US was masses of factories, lots of capital investment and tolerating high pollution. Minimum wages don't seem to be part of the equation. If this was about 'uplifting' people then the law proposed would be positive (ie, what should they be doing instead of working in fast food) instead of a negative one (people who can't justify a $20/hr wage can't be employed in fast food).
- skippyboxedhero 1y ago
  This creates an incentive to hire lots of young people and not hire unskilled older people. In the UK which has a youth wage, has had negative productivity growth, and has had a series of extremely unpopular governments who needed to use minimum wage growth to support their growth, you have seen large employers mix towards younger staff (where that is possible, in other cases you have seen employers use government programs to import below minimum wage migrants) and let go older staff en masse (employers in the UK also have auto-enroll into pensions, but only over 22). It simply isn't possible, particularly in economies that have structural problems, for productivity growth to just appear magically when politicians request it. This is a classic problem with economic intervention: you intervene, change incentives, agents do something unexpected, and the result is more intervention, more distortion, on and on. Politically, this is gold because politicians look like they are doing something. No-one asks whether that thing needs to be done at all.
ath3nd 1y ago
> Aside from really terrible home experiences for a tiny minority, a part time job for a 15 year old doesn’t need a “livable wage” Said who? The same people who don't pay internships. > but we also don’t need to make it near impossible for them to get work experience at a part time job because their skill level doesn’t align with $20/hr. When minimum wage goes up, other more skilled labor also goes up, and adults will go somewhere better paid. Then the business will have no choice but hire the kids at the $20/hr and they will get that work experience you so want to bestow upon them. It's funny you are trying to twist it like it's gonna be a problem to find work experience for the poor poor kids, while all we know the business care about is how to exploit people at the lowest possible pay. It's always "think of the children" with a specific crowd, an unhealthy obsession with children, I'd say. Think of the children and ban XYZ books cause poor children can't comprehend what they are reading (allows us to ban books we don't like) Think of the children and introduce chat control so we can track everybody and monetize their data (allows us to exploit everybody) Think of the children and don't raise the minimum wage cause poor children can't find internships and part time jobs (allows us to exploit everybody) There is a pattern here, not sure if you are ready to acknowledge it.
- unnamed76ri 1y ago
  Your utopian worldview has come up against the reality of 18k people being out of work. “We are going to increase minimum wage so you can have a livable wage!” “Yay!…wait now I have no wages. Why didn’t this work like you said?”
  - ath3nd 1y ago
    > “Yay!…wait now I have no wages. Why didn’t this work like you said?” It did. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/california-minimum-wage-impact/3686092/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/california-minimum... "Though in the same month, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics showed California had approximately 750,000 fast food jobs, roughly 11,000 more than when the higher minimum wage law took effect" "The Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics at UC Berkeley compared Glassdoor job posts and online food menu prices two weeks before the minimum wage raise and 2 weeks after. It found that wages increased by 18%, employment numbers remained stable and menu prices increased by only 3 to 7%, or 15 cents on a $4 burger." Employment numbers remained stable, which is great, meaning the 18k people now are employed at other places at at least 20-25% wage increase. I will repeat it again: If a business can't afford to pay its workers, the business shouldn't exist.
bravesoul2 1y ago
Seems like if McD needs this sort of labour its a weird business model. It can only deliver by paying people supported by their parents who are doing the work for pocket money or experience. And can only work outside of school hours and will need to quit in a year or two. Now if they pay the teenager half the wage the same adult is doing then someone is getting a raw deal.
timbit42 1y ago
A 15 year old DOES need a living wage. How else are they going to save for post-secondary education? Is keeping them out of post-secondary preferable to you? Maybe your parents paid for yours, but not everyone has that.

dvrj101 1y ago

solution : youth wage, below the standard minimum for the first year of work but that's not good enough for people who decided to close business because they cannot exploit anymore.

unnamed76ri 1y ago
California is home to the largest number of illegal immigrants being exploited for cheap farm labor. If CA really cared about exploited people, they would have done something about that. And by done something, I don’t mean encouraging and protecting its continuation.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  Border controls and dealing with illegal immigration is under federal jurisdiction. What do you expect California to do about it?
  - miley_cyrus 1y ago
    How about not encourage and exacerbate illegal immigration? https://mayor.lacity.gov/news/mayor-bass-issues-executive-directive-support-immigrant-communities https://mayor.lacity.gov/news/mayor-bass-issues-executive-di...
    - dvrj101 1y ago
      where's the raid on drug sellers, distributors or human trafficking. Avg people trying to make living getting arrested right at court's doorstep is not crackdown on crime by illegals. some guy working 8-12 hours shift, has family and participate in community programs is suddenly getting deported to nowhere is making America safe again ? This looks more like making lowest white people better than everyone else
- dvrj101 1y ago
  typical bootlickers response to deflect from uplifting lower class people. Either move it to crying illegal immigrants or they already have enough with social welfare lol. It's amazing how you'll defend top 1% getting tax cut's when we need a small part of it actually help avg. person's anxiety of not living paycheck to paycheck. Decades of tax cut's for top financial class did not workout of everyone else, the extra money did not trickle down but was used to buy politicians to get more tax payer money Raising minimum wage will close down businesses depending on exploitation and help businesses who are ethical enough to give working class their fair share.
  - roenxi 1y ago
    We know what uplifting lower class people looks like - the formula that works as seen in Asia, Europe and the US was masses of factories, lots of capital investment and tolerating high pollution. Minimum wages don't seem to be part of the equation. If this was about 'uplifting' people then the law proposed would be positive (ie, what should they be doing instead of working in fast food) instead of a negative one (people who can't justify a $20/hr wage can't be employed in fast food).
skippyboxedhero 1y ago
This creates an incentive to hire lots of young people and not hire unskilled older people. In the UK which has a youth wage, has had negative productivity growth, and has had a series of extremely unpopular governments who needed to use minimum wage growth to support their growth, you have seen large employers mix towards younger staff (where that is possible, in other cases you have seen employers use government programs to import below minimum wage migrants) and let go older staff en masse (employers in the UK also have auto-enroll into pensions, but only over 22). It simply isn't possible, particularly in economies that have structural problems, for productivity growth to just appear magically when politicians request it. This is a classic problem with economic intervention: you intervene, change incentives, agents do something unexpected, and the result is more intervention, more distortion, on and on. Politically, this is gold because politicians look like they are doing something. No-one asks whether that thing needs to be done at all.

ath3nd 1y ago

> Aside from really terrible home experiences for a tiny minority, a part time job for a 15 year old doesn’t need a “livable wage” Said who? The same people who don't pay internships. > but we also don’t need to make it near impossible for them to get work experience at a part time job because their skill level doesn’t align with $20/hr. When minimum wage goes up, other more skilled labor also goes up, and adults will go somewhere better paid. Then the business will have no choice but hire the kids at the $20/hr and they will get that work experience you so want to bestow upon them. It's funny you are trying to twist it like it's gonna be a problem to find work experience for the poor poor kids, while all we know the business care about is how to exploit people at the lowest possible pay. It's always "think of the children" with a specific crowd, an unhealthy obsession with children, I'd say. Think of the children and ban XYZ books cause poor children can't comprehend what they are reading (allows us to ban books we don't like) Think of the children and introduce chat control so we can track everybody and monetize their data (allows us to exploit everybody) Think of the children and don't raise the minimum wage cause poor children can't find internships and part time jobs (allows us to exploit everybody) There is a pattern here, not sure if you are ready to acknowledge it.

unnamed76ri 1y ago
Your utopian worldview has come up against the reality of 18k people being out of work. “We are going to increase minimum wage so you can have a livable wage!” “Yay!…wait now I have no wages. Why didn’t this work like you said?”
- ath3nd 1y ago
  > “Yay!…wait now I have no wages. Why didn’t this work like you said?” It did. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/california-minimum-wage-impact/3686092/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/california-minimum... "Though in the same month, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics showed California had approximately 750,000 fast food jobs, roughly 11,000 more than when the higher minimum wage law took effect" "The Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics at UC Berkeley compared Glassdoor job posts and online food menu prices two weeks before the minimum wage raise and 2 weeks after. It found that wages increased by 18%, employment numbers remained stable and menu prices increased by only 3 to 7%, or 15 cents on a $4 burger." Employment numbers remained stable, which is great, meaning the 18k people now are employed at other places at at least 20-25% wage increase. I will repeat it again: If a business can't afford to pay its workers, the business shouldn't exist.

bravesoul2 1y ago

Seems like if McD needs this sort of labour its a weird business model. It can only deliver by paying people supported by their parents who are doing the work for pocket money or experience. And can only work outside of school hours and will need to quit in a year or two. Now if they pay the teenager half the wage the same adult is doing then someone is getting a raw deal.

timbit42 1y ago

A 15 year old DOES need a living wage. How else are they going to save for post-secondary education? Is keeping them out of post-secondary preferable to you? Maybe your parents paid for yours, but not everyone has that.