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Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? I own a Toyota 4Runner which is known for holding its value long term and is super reliable… b

Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? I own a Toyota 4Runner which is known for holding its value long term and is super reliable… but I do have to change fluids regularly, for example. Engine oil, transfer case fluid, etc. Regenerative braking is supposed to be nicer to the actual brakes, too, even though an EV with the same capacity is generally heavier.

cma 1y ago
I think EVs need more tire changes and rotations from the added weight and the tires are a bit more expensive.
- otherme123 1y ago
  Engineering Explained youtuber made recently a video selling his Tesla (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLrDaV6nkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLrDaV6nkE), and all his mantainance costs for 60k miles are quite low: about $600, taking out damage from hitting a pothole hard. The gas savings vs electricity consumed were huge, about $10k
  - chronal4720 1y ago
    > The gas savings vs electricity consumed were huge, about $10k Not in California. Many people charge exclusively at superchargers and pay $42+ for 250 miles of range ($0.60+/kWh peak hours after work). That’s 6-8 gallons in an ICE car. At $5/gallon this makes EV supercharging more expensive than gasoline.
    - hvb2 1y ago
      When buying an ev, knowing you can charge at home should be part of your decision. Also, I've never seen 60 cents a kWh at a supercharger in California. 50 cents, plenty of times. But that's the most I've seen. Maybe that's some specific part of LA or something.
      - klipklop 1y ago
        Based on how PG&E is pricing things I suspect prices are only going sharply upwards from here. They pretty much hold the state hostage at this point. “Give us more money or we can’t guarantee that we wont accidentally burn down rural towns in the Sierra foothills.”
  - cma 1y ago
    He never changed tires in 60k miles or didn't count because he changed them at the same time as the pothole damage? It's a long vid.
    - otherme123 1y ago
      It's not specified, but definitely not included in the costs.
hvb2 1y ago
> Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? Yes, and this to me feels like one of the least understood things about EVs. There's no engine, clutch, gearbox etc. No timing belt or spark plugs either. So yes, that saves a lot of maintenance. And depending how you drive you might not use friction brakes at all either. Leaving maintenance to be a 12V battery and tires. Based on driving an ev for 10 years (Nissan Leaf)
- Hamuko 1y ago
  Not using the brakes isn't particularly good from a maintenance perspective since your brakes will rust and stop working.
  - adrianN 1y ago
    AFAIK cars know this and occasionally engage the friction brakes
  - Ekaros 1y ago
    Also they are mechanical things under pretty stressful conditions. So you need to activate them properly from time to time to have parts move as freely as they should.
- grepfru_it 1y ago
  My timing belt (chain), clutch, and gearbox last 130k+ miles. Thats the life of some EV batteries. Coilpacks cost $100. You are not wrong, but I have not had any major repair on any of my cars under 50k miles. Maintenance does exist but it doesn’t wildly drive up the cost per mile There is also suspension, a/c, wipers, and interior electronics. The difference between ice and EV stops after the drivetrain and most ice drivetrains are rather reliable these days. My 10 year old ice sedan costs about 0.18/mi. I would be interested to know what a comparable EV would cost, considering half of my cost is basically gasoline Update: it seems EVs cost under 0.10/mi with figures coming in between 0.03 and 0.08. This doesn’t explain if this is all costs (including things like washer fluid, regular maintenance etc) or estimated costs+charging. My costs were tracked over a 6 year span
nothercastle 1y ago
In general yes but Tesla is a pretty low volume closed ecosystem with poor parts availability. So when you have a problem it’s going to be a huge pain in the a.
chronal4720 1y ago
> Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? Model 3/Y battery replacement is US$15,000 to US$20,000. Wipes out all other EV maintenance cost advantages.
- adrianN 1y ago
  How long does the battery last though? Engine replacements are expensive too, but usually every other part breaks before the engine.
  - chronal4720 1y ago
    > How long does the battery last though? Tesla gives 8 years for battery warranty. Interpret that as you may. In reality, too early to tell. But probably not 20+ years like a Toyota/Honda engine or even a Mercedes/BMW/Porsche engine.
    - comte7092 1y ago
      Apply that reasoning to ICE, it’s not like Toyota/Honda are giving 20 year warranties for their drivetrains. 8 years is standard and implies a substantially longer expected lifetime of the vehicle on average.
    - Loggias 1y ago
      Well, considering that some teslas have gone 300k miles on the same battery, this is a moot point.
- Joel_Mckay 1y ago
  True, but grey market rebuilt packs for Prius are only $2k to $6k if you know the secret of the Cab fleet companies. For most other models one is indeed not so lucky =3
- YZF 1y ago
  Modern batteries can last a long while though. If you take care of it and mostly keep it between 25-75% and don't supercharge it too often. There are Teslas with more than 300K miles on the original battery. I have a model 3 with ~80K kilometers and the battery is as good as new. 2018 model. For someone that drives 10-15K km a year there's maybe 30 years more driving on this battery (400K km). My previous ICE car had two head gasket replacements in the 10 years I owned it. I also had to replace the entire engine. Oil changes. Brake pads/discs, CV joints... So far the EV is way ahead and based on the current battery degradation should remain ahead.
Joel_Mckay 1y ago
A good ICE vehicle without a CVT can last a long time. Regenerative braking means people don't need brake maintenance as often, but also have to replace tires more frequently (especially lazy people that don't rotate the tires regularly.) Personally, I wouldn't buy a North American ICE model from the past 17 years. Go to a site like Edmunds and sort by worst reviews first, and run if you see electrical or drivetrain complaints. You will have to go back decades to find a reasonable quality domestic ICE model. =3
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Fade_Dance 1y ago
  That's not true at all. Many reliable models from US manufacturers over the past 17 years. Just do some basic research. Likewise, there are plenty of awful models from otherwise reliable manufacturers (Toyota oil burning engines, Hyundai grenading Theta engines). That said most of the reliable models are passed over. People assume that a recent Chevy Malibu or Buick Regal is an unreliable car, but some of those sorts of cars can hit 200k with ease.
  - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
    >Just do some basic research Indeed, and we purchased Honda and Toyota models for in town. I like the silly look of the Rivian, but wanted to hold off a year to see what others say about its mechanical equity. Be honest, Ford and Dodge have been on a downward slope for decades. =3
- adrianN 1y ago
  I’m surprised that tires can tell by which mechanism they are braked.
- jemmyw 1y ago
  I'm interested to know why doing regen instead of braking would mean you have to replace the tires more often? Seeing as the tires are the only thing in contact with the road I would have thought it wouldn't make any difference what was slowing the wheels to create more friction - brakes or the engine. Can you elaborate?
jjav 1y ago
> Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-car-brands/ https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-...

cma 1y ago

I think EVs need more tire changes and rotations from the added weight and the tires are a bit more expensive.

otherme123 1y ago
Engineering Explained youtuber made recently a video selling his Tesla (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLrDaV6nkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLrDaV6nkE), and all his mantainance costs for 60k miles are quite low: about $600, taking out damage from hitting a pothole hard. The gas savings vs electricity consumed were huge, about $10k
- chronal4720 1y ago
  > The gas savings vs electricity consumed were huge, about $10k Not in California. Many people charge exclusively at superchargers and pay $42+ for 250 miles of range ($0.60+/kWh peak hours after work). That’s 6-8 gallons in an ICE car. At $5/gallon this makes EV supercharging more expensive than gasoline.
  - hvb2 1y ago
    When buying an ev, knowing you can charge at home should be part of your decision. Also, I've never seen 60 cents a kWh at a supercharger in California. 50 cents, plenty of times. But that's the most I've seen. Maybe that's some specific part of LA or something.
    - klipklop 1y ago
      Based on how PG&E is pricing things I suspect prices are only going sharply upwards from here. They pretty much hold the state hostage at this point. “Give us more money or we can’t guarantee that we wont accidentally burn down rural towns in the Sierra foothills.”
- cma 1y ago
  He never changed tires in 60k miles or didn't count because he changed them at the same time as the pothole damage? It's a long vid.
  - otherme123 1y ago
    It's not specified, but definitely not included in the costs.

hvb2 1y ago

> Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? Yes, and this to me feels like one of the least understood things about EVs. There's no engine, clutch, gearbox etc. No timing belt or spark plugs either. So yes, that saves a lot of maintenance. And depending how you drive you might not use friction brakes at all either. Leaving maintenance to be a 12V battery and tires. Based on driving an ev for 10 years (Nissan Leaf)

Hamuko 1y ago
Not using the brakes isn't particularly good from a maintenance perspective since your brakes will rust and stop working.
- adrianN 1y ago
  AFAIK cars know this and occasionally engage the friction brakes
- Ekaros 1y ago
  Also they are mechanical things under pretty stressful conditions. So you need to activate them properly from time to time to have parts move as freely as they should.
grepfru_it 1y ago
My timing belt (chain), clutch, and gearbox last 130k+ miles. Thats the life of some EV batteries. Coilpacks cost $100. You are not wrong, but I have not had any major repair on any of my cars under 50k miles. Maintenance does exist but it doesn’t wildly drive up the cost per mile There is also suspension, a/c, wipers, and interior electronics. The difference between ice and EV stops after the drivetrain and most ice drivetrains are rather reliable these days. My 10 year old ice sedan costs about 0.18/mi. I would be interested to know what a comparable EV would cost, considering half of my cost is basically gasoline Update: it seems EVs cost under 0.10/mi with figures coming in between 0.03 and 0.08. This doesn’t explain if this is all costs (including things like washer fluid, regular maintenance etc) or estimated costs+charging. My costs were tracked over a 6 year span

nothercastle 1y ago

In general yes but Tesla is a pretty low volume closed ecosystem with poor parts availability. So when you have a problem it’s going to be a huge pain in the a.

chronal4720 1y ago

> Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? Model 3/Y battery replacement is US$15,000 to US$20,000. Wipes out all other EV maintenance cost advantages.

adrianN 1y ago
How long does the battery last though? Engine replacements are expensive too, but usually every other part breaks before the engine.
- chronal4720 1y ago
  > How long does the battery last though? Tesla gives 8 years for battery warranty. Interpret that as you may. In reality, too early to tell. But probably not 20+ years like a Toyota/Honda engine or even a Mercedes/BMW/Porsche engine.
  - comte7092 1y ago
    Apply that reasoning to ICE, it’s not like Toyota/Honda are giving 20 year warranties for their drivetrains. 8 years is standard and implies a substantially longer expected lifetime of the vehicle on average.
  - Loggias 1y ago
    Well, considering that some teslas have gone 300k miles on the same battery, this is a moot point.
Joel_Mckay 1y ago
True, but grey market rebuilt packs for Prius are only $2k to $6k if you know the secret of the Cab fleet companies. For most other models one is indeed not so lucky =3
YZF 1y ago
Modern batteries can last a long while though. If you take care of it and mostly keep it between 25-75% and don't supercharge it too often. There are Teslas with more than 300K miles on the original battery. I have a model 3 with ~80K kilometers and the battery is as good as new. 2018 model. For someone that drives 10-15K km a year there's maybe 30 years more driving on this battery (400K km). My previous ICE car had two head gasket replacements in the 10 years I owned it. I also had to replace the entire engine. Oil changes. Brake pads/discs, CV joints... So far the EV is way ahead and based on the current battery degradation should remain ahead.

Joel_Mckay 1y ago

A good ICE vehicle without a CVT can last a long time. Regenerative braking means people don't need brake maintenance as often, but also have to replace tires more frequently (especially lazy people that don't rotate the tires regularly.) Personally, I wouldn't buy a North American ICE model from the past 17 years. Go to a site like Edmunds and sort by worst reviews first, and run if you see electrical or drivetrain complaints. You will have to go back decades to find a reasonable quality domestic ICE model. =3

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Fade_Dance 1y ago
That's not true at all. Many reliable models from US manufacturers over the past 17 years. Just do some basic research. Likewise, there are plenty of awful models from otherwise reliable manufacturers (Toyota oil burning engines, Hyundai grenading Theta engines). That said most of the reliable models are passed over. People assume that a recent Chevy Malibu or Buick Regal is an unreliable car, but some of those sorts of cars can hit 200k with ease.
- Joel_Mckay 1y ago
  >Just do some basic research Indeed, and we purchased Honda and Toyota models for in town. I like the silly look of the Rivian, but wanted to hold off a year to see what others say about its mechanical equity. Be honest, Ford and Dodge have been on a downward slope for decades. =3
adrianN 1y ago
I’m surprised that tires can tell by which mechanism they are braked.
jemmyw 1y ago
I'm interested to know why doing regen instead of braking would mean you have to replace the tires more often? Seeing as the tires are the only thing in contact with the road I would have thought it wouldn't make any difference what was slowing the wheels to create more friction - brakes or the engine. Can you elaborate?

jjav 1y ago

> Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-car-brands/ https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-...