3 ms·

I mean outside of HPC why would you when the browser is the world’s most ubiquitous VM?

by thorncorona 1y ago

esseph 1y ago
Because the browser is gross and you can reclaim lot of performance and security when you don't need to use it.
- esseph 1y ago
  I mean, why aren't the apps on your phone all just webapps, right? (Also, eww)
  - jakelazaroff 1y ago
    Mostly because native apps can track you far more invasively than web apps can, and companies are hungry for your private data.
    - esseph 1y ago
      Not sure I agree with that. It's a lot better on battery life and superior experience, especially if you are traveling or around areas with bad cell service. Cookies track me around on websites all the time + modern telemetry is pretty crazy.
      - r_lee 1y ago
        The permissions that apps can get on Android even by default are pretty invasive, like querying other apps/processes and etc iirc...
        esseph 1y ago
        Chrome being able to scan your network on desktop is still insane to me.
      - sillyfluke 1y ago
        >Not sure I agree with that. It's a lot better on battery life... The parent is talking about privacy and your first counter argument is privacy irrelevant battery life? The tracking and telemetry abundance in native far exceeds the browser. Nevermind a lot of apps remain running in background because the user forgets or can't be bothered to close them. Follow the money. Why are random companies begging me to download their mobile app and get ridiculous discounts in the process whenever I use their website? Why are weather apps known to be spyware vectors but weather websites don't have that stigma?
- moffkalast 1y ago
  Sure but you're also constrained to only one platform. It's like the C++ vs Python argument in ML, yes writing everything in low level high speed highly optimized native code would be perfect, but ain't (almost) nobody got fucking time or skill for that.
  - senko 1y ago
    Cross-platform toolkits are (still) a thing.
    - moffkalast 1y ago
      Yeah they're called Electron now ;) Qt is such a pain to work with it's almost like it's intentional that people should avoid it.
      - rubymamis 1y ago
        I can't disagree more. I've written extensively about the joy of programming using Qt in my blog post: https://rubymamistvalove.com/block-editor https://rubymamistvalove.com/block-editor
    - zelphirkalt 1y ago
      Recently I tried to make a GTK app, but the problem was, for none of the languages I tried the bindings were working well enough. So in the end I decided to make a local first static web app in Python and Django. Everything is rendered server side and state is stored in the database. If I ever finish it, it should be easy to bring it online. And then maybe registrations ...
  - esseph 1y ago
    "Lack of skill" is a real problem I've seen grow over the past decade. No matter the company I'm with or in conversations with others at other places, there just hasn't been a solid intake of junior programmers / sysadmins / network engineers / etc. Which sucks, because now there's very few junior staff to teach, which makes backfills harder. Any junior positions that do seem to happen are just a money funnel to offshoring and the results are /mostly/ less than stellar and ultimately aren't setup to solve the knowledge transfer problem in a meaningful, long-term way.
spauldo 1y ago
A lot of us just don't want to be web developers. I mostly write IEC 61131 code, with sprinkles of BASIC (yuck), C, Perl, and Lisp. I've used JavaScript and quite frankly, you can keep it.
- typpilol 1y ago
  Does anyone else think javascript bad? Wow brave!
  - spauldo 1y ago
    Having personal preferences is brave? I've got tons of those! Maybe I'll go start some bar fights.
anthk 1y ago
Offices when the performance matters against shitty web apps.
wolvesechoes 1y ago
If you want something better than UI designed for toddlers

I mean outside of HPC why would you when the browser is the world’s most ubiquitous VM?

esseph 1y ago

Because the browser is gross and you can reclaim lot of performance and security when you don't need to use it.

esseph 1y ago
I mean, why aren't the apps on your phone all just webapps, right? (Also, eww)
- jakelazaroff 1y ago
  Mostly because native apps can track you far more invasively than web apps can, and companies are hungry for your private data.
  - esseph 1y ago
    Not sure I agree with that. It's a lot better on battery life and superior experience, especially if you are traveling or around areas with bad cell service. Cookies track me around on websites all the time + modern telemetry is pretty crazy.
    - r_lee 1y ago
      The permissions that apps can get on Android even by default are pretty invasive, like querying other apps/processes and etc iirc...
      - esseph 1y ago
        Chrome being able to scan your network on desktop is still insane to me.
    - sillyfluke 1y ago
      >Not sure I agree with that. It's a lot better on battery life... The parent is talking about privacy and your first counter argument is privacy irrelevant battery life? The tracking and telemetry abundance in native far exceeds the browser. Nevermind a lot of apps remain running in background because the user forgets or can't be bothered to close them. Follow the money. Why are random companies begging me to download their mobile app and get ridiculous discounts in the process whenever I use their website? Why are weather apps known to be spyware vectors but weather websites don't have that stigma?
moffkalast 1y ago
Sure but you're also constrained to only one platform. It's like the C++ vs Python argument in ML, yes writing everything in low level high speed highly optimized native code would be perfect, but ain't (almost) nobody got fucking time or skill for that.
- senko 1y ago
  Cross-platform toolkits are (still) a thing.
  - moffkalast 1y ago
    Yeah they're called Electron now ;) Qt is such a pain to work with it's almost like it's intentional that people should avoid it.
    - rubymamis 1y ago
      I can't disagree more. I've written extensively about the joy of programming using Qt in my blog post: https://rubymamistvalove.com/block-editor https://rubymamistvalove.com/block-editor
  - zelphirkalt 1y ago
    Recently I tried to make a GTK app, but the problem was, for none of the languages I tried the bindings were working well enough. So in the end I decided to make a local first static web app in Python and Django. Everything is rendered server side and state is stored in the database. If I ever finish it, it should be easy to bring it online. And then maybe registrations ...
- esseph 1y ago
  "Lack of skill" is a real problem I've seen grow over the past decade. No matter the company I'm with or in conversations with others at other places, there just hasn't been a solid intake of junior programmers / sysadmins / network engineers / etc. Which sucks, because now there's very few junior staff to teach, which makes backfills harder. Any junior positions that do seem to happen are just a money funnel to offshoring and the results are /mostly/ less than stellar and ultimately aren't setup to solve the knowledge transfer problem in a meaningful, long-term way.

spauldo 1y ago

A lot of us just don't want to be web developers. I mostly write IEC 61131 code, with sprinkles of BASIC (yuck), C, Perl, and Lisp. I've used JavaScript and quite frankly, you can keep it.

typpilol 1y ago
Does anyone else think javascript bad? Wow brave!
- spauldo 1y ago
  Having personal preferences is brave? I've got tons of those! Maybe I'll go start some bar fights.

anthk 1y ago

Offices when the performance matters against shitty web apps.

wolvesechoes 1y ago

If you want something better than UI designed for toddlers