4 ms·

So one year after ICS came out and about three months after ICS' successor came out, there's finally 21% of the devices running a now outdated version of Androi

by pilif 14y ago

So one year after ICS came out and about three months after ICS' successor came out, there's finally 21% of the devices running a now outdated version of Android? And we are celebrating that? Google really needs to find a solution to get these devices updated independently from the manufacturers which are only interested in selling new devices. It's very frustrating for developers to see more and more features being added to the platform that are out of reach for years or require a lot of work to implement in a backwards compatible way (which then also isn't worth the effort because nobody is running the newer versions)

Steko 14y ago
"Google really needs to find a solution to get these devices updated independently from the manufacturers which are only interested in selling new devices." Why? I mean I'm sure Google would love faster updates from their partners and I think going forward they've decided to share their roadmaps with more then the current nexus partner which should help but: (1) At the end of the day Android is doing gangbusters even with slow updates. (2) There's a distinct line of devices that should get fast updates if that's a killer feature for you. (3) The whole point of Android is they don't all have to do anything.
- taligent 14y ago
  Why ? Because most Android users don't like the fact that their devices are basically abandoned the minute they are purchased. It is by far the number one problem with the platform at the moment. And frankly the idea that Google should do nothing about addressing Android's biggest flaw is pretty dumb.
  - Steko 14y ago
    "most Android users" I'm guessing most actually don't care. That's the point of Android -- if "most" really cared the market would respond in a bigger way to that. The Galaxy Nexus has done well in sales but ultimately it's losing head to head against ICS phones.
    - fpgeek 14y ago
      I'd say "don't care" is a pretty accurate reading. When ICS arrived for my wife's SGS2, she was probably more irritated by the update clearing her home screens than she was about most of the improvements in ICS. IIRC, the only feature that qualified for actual excitement rather than mild interest (or even less) was the ability to kill Vlingo dead, dead, dead.
  - vetinari 14y ago
    Actually, most Android users (scratch that, most cellphone users) do not care about updates at all. I've seen "normal users" with notification icon about update available and what they do? Ignore it. (To add, in Sony Ericsson's case, the notification is non-dismissable. Their biggest concern was, how to make it disappear. They didn't want to run the update; "the current software is fine").
    - taligent 14y ago
      Your argument is simply not true. iOS users regularly update as we've seen time and time again. Windows users regularly update. OSX users regularly update. What makes Android users so different ?
      - vetinari 14y ago
        Only iOS users regularly update. Windows Phone was also sold only to enthusiasts, who had to update to Mango, as the platform matured. Other cellphone platforms users do not update, even if they can. In some cases, they cannot and they are used to that (e.g. Symbian). Windows and OSX are desktop systems, and not all of their owners update. Witness the prevalence of XP and 10.5 in the wild.
        Steko 14y ago
        If memory serves me correctly there's a decent sized pool of iOS users that never hooked up their phone to the computer and so haven't gotten any updates since they bought pre-OTA. Going by wikipedia's usage share of web browsers maybe I'll say 15%+?
        vetinari 14y ago
        You are right, when taking anectodes into account, I have such users around me. Even those, who are capable of OTA updates, they often don't (if your monthly limit is 1GB of data, you are not going to burn it on update). It may be difficult to accept on HN, but really, mainstream users do not care about firmware updates. It is actually net negative for them. They have a device they are using and the update changes the behavior, that they are used to.
- pilif 14y ago
  As Google moves more and more into the market of being a (the?) content provider for Android devices, they will sooner or later find themselves in the same spot as third-party developers do now: Hurting because they can't use the features that newer platforms would provide.
  - fpgeek 14y ago
    I'm sure Google is already the developer of the most-downloaded, most-popular Android applications, by a large margin. To date, that seems to have motivated them to establish a good foundation for introspection and dynamic dispatch early on and then produce compatibility libraries as needed. I suspect they find the current situation an acceptable trade-off.
wazoox 14y ago
I've bought an android phone last week. I'd say that about 75% of all models sold are running Gingerbread. Some of them can be upgraded OTA to ICS; but a significant part have to be painfully upgraded using a PC, and another significant part can't be upgraded at all. So maybe JB is the state of the art, but at this moment exactly one device is available with it through European biggest carriers (the Nexus). It's more reasonable to say that ICS is the state of the art and GB will remain the basic system for many phones for a long, long time.
- fpgeek 14y ago
  My view of the situation is that the period between the Android version launch and the launch of the first non-Nexus device is Android's equivalent of iOS's public beta. Note, in particular, the large volume of changes between Android 4.0 and 4.0.3, many of which were about adapting ICS to devices other than the Galaxy Nexus. I guess Google doesn't want to talk about it that way because, among other things, you're buying the device with beta software, but, functionally, that seems to be what is happening.
  - Steko 14y ago
    "My view of the situation is that the period between the Android version launch and the launch of the first non-Nexus device is Android's equivalent of iOS's public beta. " I would say this is straining for equivalence. The day iOS 6 went into public beta you could run it on a 2009 3GS. Fundamentally Google has little power over phones that have already been sold so even if it wanted to it can't change the fact that many phones sold won't get official updates. So Google's focus has to be on tomorrow's phones. It puts the source out there for old phones and customers can complain to Samsung or use Cyanogen or not care. OTOH Apple does have that control over older phones and coupled with the few models available this means it can afford to deliver an experience that's slightly more developer and customer friendly (in this respect). The fundamentals of this don't seem likely to change anytime soon. The bottom line is if timely and regular updates are your killer feature then you're taking your chances with anything that isn't a nexus or iOS device. And while nexus devices are a clear 2nd place, iOS is Secretariat at the Belmont. The irony I guess is we'd expect Windows Phone to fall between iOS and Android here and yet they've basically been the biggest joke. I guess they get points for honesty? We'll see how many checks those points cash at nokia's bankruptcy proceedings.
napoleoncomplex 14y ago
We've recently put out 2 Android apps for our local market, one for the business market, one for the medical professionals market, and I guess it's because of that our stats (from the Play Developer console) are significantly different than these. Business app: ICS 53%, GB 37% Medical app: ICS 46 %, 40 % So while it's not all rosy, the actual impact of the fragmentation is significantly dependant on who your target market is. Also as a tip to all developers struggling with fragmentation: - https://github.com/JakeWharton/ActionBarSherlock/ https://github.com/JakeWharton/ActionBarSherlock/ (ActionBar library for pre-ICS devices) - https://github.com/ChristopheVersieux/HoloEverywhere https://github.com/ChristopheVersieux/HoloEverywhere (Holo Theme library for pre-ICS devices) They're both well known, but doesn't hurt to repeat, these will make your life a lot easier.

by pilif 14y ago

Steko 14y ago

"Google really needs to find a solution to get these devices updated independently from the manufacturers which are only interested in selling new devices." Why? I mean I'm sure Google would love faster updates from their partners and I think going forward they've decided to share their roadmaps with more then the current nexus partner which should help but: (1) At the end of the day Android is doing gangbusters even with slow updates. (2) There's a distinct line of devices that should get fast updates if that's a killer feature for you. (3) The whole point of Android is they don't all have to do anything.

taligent 14y ago
Why ? Because most Android users don't like the fact that their devices are basically abandoned the minute they are purchased. It is by far the number one problem with the platform at the moment. And frankly the idea that Google should do nothing about addressing Android's biggest flaw is pretty dumb.
- Steko 14y ago
  "most Android users" I'm guessing most actually don't care. That's the point of Android -- if "most" really cared the market would respond in a bigger way to that. The Galaxy Nexus has done well in sales but ultimately it's losing head to head against ICS phones.
  - fpgeek 14y ago
    I'd say "don't care" is a pretty accurate reading. When ICS arrived for my wife's SGS2, she was probably more irritated by the update clearing her home screens than she was about most of the improvements in ICS. IIRC, the only feature that qualified for actual excitement rather than mild interest (or even less) was the ability to kill Vlingo dead, dead, dead.
- vetinari 14y ago
  Actually, most Android users (scratch that, most cellphone users) do not care about updates at all. I've seen "normal users" with notification icon about update available and what they do? Ignore it. (To add, in Sony Ericsson's case, the notification is non-dismissable. Their biggest concern was, how to make it disappear. They didn't want to run the update; "the current software is fine").
  - taligent 14y ago
    Your argument is simply not true. iOS users regularly update as we've seen time and time again. Windows users regularly update. OSX users regularly update. What makes Android users so different ?
    - vetinari 14y ago
      Only iOS users regularly update. Windows Phone was also sold only to enthusiasts, who had to update to Mango, as the platform matured. Other cellphone platforms users do not update, even if they can. In some cases, they cannot and they are used to that (e.g. Symbian). Windows and OSX are desktop systems, and not all of their owners update. Witness the prevalence of XP and 10.5 in the wild.
      - Steko 14y ago
        If memory serves me correctly there's a decent sized pool of iOS users that never hooked up their phone to the computer and so haven't gotten any updates since they bought pre-OTA. Going by wikipedia's usage share of web browsers maybe I'll say 15%+?
        vetinari 14y ago
        You are right, when taking anectodes into account, I have such users around me. Even those, who are capable of OTA updates, they often don't (if your monthly limit is 1GB of data, you are not going to burn it on update). It may be difficult to accept on HN, but really, mainstream users do not care about firmware updates. It is actually net negative for them. They have a device they are using and the update changes the behavior, that they are used to.
pilif 14y ago
As Google moves more and more into the market of being a (the?) content provider for Android devices, they will sooner or later find themselves in the same spot as third-party developers do now: Hurting because they can't use the features that newer platforms would provide.
- fpgeek 14y ago
  I'm sure Google is already the developer of the most-downloaded, most-popular Android applications, by a large margin. To date, that seems to have motivated them to establish a good foundation for introspection and dynamic dispatch early on and then produce compatibility libraries as needed. I suspect they find the current situation an acceptable trade-off.

wazoox 14y ago

I've bought an android phone last week. I'd say that about 75% of all models sold are running Gingerbread. Some of them can be upgraded OTA to ICS; but a significant part have to be painfully upgraded using a PC, and another significant part can't be upgraded at all. So maybe JB is the state of the art, but at this moment exactly one device is available with it through European biggest carriers (the Nexus). It's more reasonable to say that ICS is the state of the art and GB will remain the basic system for many phones for a long, long time.

fpgeek 14y ago
My view of the situation is that the period between the Android version launch and the launch of the first non-Nexus device is Android's equivalent of iOS's public beta. Note, in particular, the large volume of changes between Android 4.0 and 4.0.3, many of which were about adapting ICS to devices other than the Galaxy Nexus. I guess Google doesn't want to talk about it that way because, among other things, you're buying the device with beta software, but, functionally, that seems to be what is happening.
- Steko 14y ago
  "My view of the situation is that the period between the Android version launch and the launch of the first non-Nexus device is Android's equivalent of iOS's public beta. " I would say this is straining for equivalence. The day iOS 6 went into public beta you could run it on a 2009 3GS. Fundamentally Google has little power over phones that have already been sold so even if it wanted to it can't change the fact that many phones sold won't get official updates. So Google's focus has to be on tomorrow's phones. It puts the source out there for old phones and customers can complain to Samsung or use Cyanogen or not care. OTOH Apple does have that control over older phones and coupled with the few models available this means it can afford to deliver an experience that's slightly more developer and customer friendly (in this respect). The fundamentals of this don't seem likely to change anytime soon. The bottom line is if timely and regular updates are your killer feature then you're taking your chances with anything that isn't a nexus or iOS device. And while nexus devices are a clear 2nd place, iOS is Secretariat at the Belmont. The irony I guess is we'd expect Windows Phone to fall between iOS and Android here and yet they've basically been the biggest joke. I guess they get points for honesty? We'll see how many checks those points cash at nokia's bankruptcy proceedings.

napoleoncomplex 14y ago

We've recently put out 2 Android apps for our local market, one for the business market, one for the medical professionals market, and I guess it's because of that our stats (from the Play Developer console) are significantly different than these. Business app: ICS 53%, GB 37% Medical app: ICS 46 %, 40 % So while it's not all rosy, the actual impact of the fragmentation is significantly dependant on who your target market is. Also as a tip to all developers struggling with fragmentation: - https://github.com/JakeWharton/ActionBarSherlock/ https://github.com/JakeWharton/ActionBarSherlock/ (ActionBar library for pre-ICS devices) - https://github.com/ChristopheVersieux/HoloEverywhere https://github.com/ChristopheVersieux/HoloEverywhere (Holo Theme library for pre-ICS devices) They're both well known, but doesn't hurt to repeat, these will make your life a lot easier.