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> Residents liked being able to listen in to the scanners. They're a public service funded by taxpayer dollars. Knowing what they're doing seems reasonable.

tptacek 1y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44830592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44830592
- boston_clone 1y ago
  Do you think that the US police force culture mirrors that of Europe? Could there be a need for more oversight, accountability, and transparency for American cops? Please also remember that law enforcement effectively steals billions of dollars from citizens each year - https://ij.org/press-release/new-report-finds-civil-forfeiture-rakes-in-billions-each-year-does-not-fight-crime-2/ https://ij.org/press-release/new-report-finds-civil-forfeitu...
hypercube33 1y ago
Many many years ago a buddy of mine loved listening to the scanners. One evening we are on AIM chatting and he explains what is going on: noise complaint at a house down the block (kids partying) He looks the address up and calls them to warn them and sits back to see if they do anything. sounds like they managed to bail before anyone showed up to the address.
- baby_souffle 1y ago
  Not all heros wear capes. Some of them keep their ears glued to the scanners...
  - zdragnar 1y ago
    Now replace "kids" with gangs and other organized crime, and it makes a little more sense why they'd want to encrypt it.
    - chillingeffect 1y ago
      ...so the gangs will continue the crimes?
      - zdragnar 1y ago
        So the organization can't alert each other when they hear one of their locations or operations on dispatch.
    - radicaldreamer 1y ago
      Gangs and organized crime have more sophisticated ways of avoid law enforcement
      - tptacek 1y ago
        Do they? What are they?
        radicaldreamer 1y ago
        Bribery is a common one, counterintelligence is another, compromising people who are investigating them (or their family members)
        defrost 1y ago
        Along with radicaldreamer suggestions it's also common to be really effective at stonewalling police while on secure wire cameras with audio recording and to have very good criminal lawyers on retainer. Also having patches and wannabes who are prepared to scapegoat themselves. This isn't so much directly evading law enforcement but it's effective as it can easily cause police take actions that cause evidence and cases to be thrown out, raise reasonable doubt, etc. Depleting resources and diversions are also relatively common, creating a 'fake' public threat or hate crime to investigate bleeds police resources away from ongoing investigations, etc. The tango between gang squads and organized criminal groups is an ongoing escalating battle. The EncroPhone transcripts revealed a lot.
    - 1y ago
- lukan 1y ago
  Huh? In europe when the police comes to a loud party, they come and tell the people to please be more silent. (And if it is just minor kids, ask for a adult) So if the party dispersed in panic before they even arrive .. problem solved fpr them? Or does the US police busts loud parties gun blazing in general?
  - sokoloff 1y ago
    Many times they’ll take an interest in underage drinking or recreational drug use, which the party attendees might prefer they didn’t get tagged for.
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      Also depends on which neighborhood and whose house it is.
  - throw-qqqqq 1y ago
    > Or does the US police busts loud parties gun blazing in general? Nah, but lots of these parties have kids below than 21 (or whatever the legal drinking age is). So they get fined or arrested if caught so they leg it. A friend attended a Chicago-suburb high school for a year (exchange student). Said he had to run from cops at private parties about a handful of times in that year, and that it was pretty normal in his group.
- waltbosz 1y ago
  I grew up in a college town, our house was the only family on a street full of student rentals. The police were frequently breaking up parties. That gave me an idea for a business that would listen to police scanners and warn the party if an officer was inbound.
beambot 1y ago
Oversight & accountability are different from operational security. Leaving the radios unencrypted merely lends advantage to more-sophisticated bad actors.
- LeoPanthera 1y ago
  But in the USA there is ample evidence that the police are often bad actors.
- jMyles 1y ago
  ...I'd like to see evidence for that claim. Much more likely is that the opacity of encryption lends advantage to the unsophisticated bad actors (ie, the 'official' ones). I think most of us, at least in the USA, are far more ready to take our chances with these hypothetical sophisticated bad actors than to reduce the real-time transparency of verified ones.
- protocolture 1y ago
  Its literally opsec for the bad actors, the cops, to more effectively terrorise the civilian population.
- mulmen 1y ago
  How does one perform oversight of a police department if the comms are encrypted? Do I FOIA all the communications? How specific does that request have to be? Are the comms even recorded? How long are they retained? What happens when the recordings are "lost"?
  - netsharc 1y ago
    Geez, this is a crazy take... as much as I hate corrupt police, monitoring their communication means disabling their ability to communicate with each other in secret. During the Munich 1972 olympics(1), terrorists took some Israeli athletes hostage, and then this happened: > Meanwhile, the terrorists learned from radio and television broadcasts that the police were approaching and had planned a rescue operation. The authorities had failed to cut off the terrorists' electricity and remove the press from the Olympic Village. If they did all that and the terrorists were able to listen to their radio, what's next? Is encryption allowed then? If they could enable it then, why not enable it all the time, "just in case"? 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre

tptacek 1y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44830592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44830592

boston_clone 1y ago
Do you think that the US police force culture mirrors that of Europe? Could there be a need for more oversight, accountability, and transparency for American cops? Please also remember that law enforcement effectively steals billions of dollars from citizens each year - https://ij.org/press-release/new-report-finds-civil-forfeiture-rakes-in-billions-each-year-does-not-fight-crime-2/ https://ij.org/press-release/new-report-finds-civil-forfeitu...

hypercube33 1y ago

Many many years ago a buddy of mine loved listening to the scanners. One evening we are on AIM chatting and he explains what is going on: noise complaint at a house down the block (kids partying) He looks the address up and calls them to warn them and sits back to see if they do anything. sounds like they managed to bail before anyone showed up to the address.

baby_souffle 1y ago
Not all heros wear capes. Some of them keep their ears glued to the scanners...
- zdragnar 1y ago
  Now replace "kids" with gangs and other organized crime, and it makes a little more sense why they'd want to encrypt it.
  - chillingeffect 1y ago
    ...so the gangs will continue the crimes?
    - zdragnar 1y ago
      So the organization can't alert each other when they hear one of their locations or operations on dispatch.
  - radicaldreamer 1y ago
    Gangs and organized crime have more sophisticated ways of avoid law enforcement
    - tptacek 1y ago
      Do they? What are they?
      - radicaldreamer 1y ago
        Bribery is a common one, counterintelligence is another, compromising people who are investigating them (or their family members)
      - defrost 1y ago
        Along with radicaldreamer suggestions it's also common to be really effective at stonewalling police while on secure wire cameras with audio recording and to have very good criminal lawyers on retainer. Also having patches and wannabes who are prepared to scapegoat themselves. This isn't so much directly evading law enforcement but it's effective as it can easily cause police take actions that cause evidence and cases to be thrown out, raise reasonable doubt, etc. Depleting resources and diversions are also relatively common, creating a 'fake' public threat or hate crime to investigate bleeds police resources away from ongoing investigations, etc. The tango between gang squads and organized criminal groups is an ongoing escalating battle. The EncroPhone transcripts revealed a lot.
  - 1y ago
lukan 1y ago
Huh? In europe when the police comes to a loud party, they come and tell the people to please be more silent. (And if it is just minor kids, ask for a adult) So if the party dispersed in panic before they even arrive .. problem solved fpr them? Or does the US police busts loud parties gun blazing in general?
- sokoloff 1y ago
  Many times they’ll take an interest in underage drinking or recreational drug use, which the party attendees might prefer they didn’t get tagged for.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    Also depends on which neighborhood and whose house it is.
- throw-qqqqq 1y ago
  > Or does the US police busts loud parties gun blazing in general? Nah, but lots of these parties have kids below than 21 (or whatever the legal drinking age is). So they get fined or arrested if caught so they leg it. A friend attended a Chicago-suburb high school for a year (exchange student). Said he had to run from cops at private parties about a handful of times in that year, and that it was pretty normal in his group.
waltbosz 1y ago
I grew up in a college town, our house was the only family on a street full of student rentals. The police were frequently breaking up parties. That gave me an idea for a business that would listen to police scanners and warn the party if an officer was inbound.

beambot 1y ago

Oversight & accountability are different from operational security. Leaving the radios unencrypted merely lends advantage to more-sophisticated bad actors.

LeoPanthera 1y ago
But in the USA there is ample evidence that the police are often bad actors.
jMyles 1y ago
...I'd like to see evidence for that claim. Much more likely is that the opacity of encryption lends advantage to the unsophisticated bad actors (ie, the 'official' ones). I think most of us, at least in the USA, are far more ready to take our chances with these hypothetical sophisticated bad actors than to reduce the real-time transparency of verified ones.
protocolture 1y ago
Its literally opsec for the bad actors, the cops, to more effectively terrorise the civilian population.
mulmen 1y ago
How does one perform oversight of a police department if the comms are encrypted? Do I FOIA all the communications? How specific does that request have to be? Are the comms even recorded? How long are they retained? What happens when the recordings are "lost"?
- netsharc 1y ago
  Geez, this is a crazy take... as much as I hate corrupt police, monitoring their communication means disabling their ability to communicate with each other in secret. During the Munich 1972 olympics(1), terrorists took some Israeli athletes hostage, and then this happened: > Meanwhile, the terrorists learned from radio and television broadcasts that the police were approaching and had planned a rescue operation. The authorities had failed to cut off the terrorists' electricity and remove the press from the Olympic Village. If they did all that and the terrorists were able to listen to their radio, what's next? Is encryption allowed then? If they could enable it then, why not enable it all the time, "just in case"? 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre