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You are not hosting it so presumably BlueSky do. You say there is no platform lock in. If BlueSky banned you tomorrow what is the plan? If BlueSky went bankrup

You are not hosting it so presumably BlueSky do. You say there is no platform lock in. If BlueSky banned you tomorrow what is the plan? If BlueSky went bankrupt tomorrow? I figure there are other AT compliant products that you can switch to but a lot of data would go missing?

tracker1 1y ago
Beyond this, BlueSky definitely kicks a lot of Libertarian and Right-leaning users off the platform. It seems to be okay if you're left of center or politically agnostic.
- LeoPanthera 1y ago
  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is it perhaps that the "right-leaning" social media users being banned are also violating the rules? Attacks and abuse seem to be standard practice, especially for the American right.
  - umbra07 1y ago
    What rules are we talking about? Because my Bluesky feed (the Discover section) is filled with name-calling, hints at political violence, etc. all coming from liberal/left accounts.
    - LeoPanthera 1y ago
      That's not my experience at all.
    - kouru225 1y ago
      Seems like you might be preoccupied with rage bait and you think that it’s actually real
- TimorousBestie 1y ago
  Bluesky moderation has been fairly even handed as far as I have seen. They also ban plenty of leftists and trans activists when these happen to exceed the ToS. And good luck if you’re a Palestinian trying to fundraise on the platform; they get banned by the hundreds.
  - Maken 1y ago
    Is there any social network in the USA which is not banning Palestinians?
- cactacea 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 1y ago
    >* stop talking out of your ass* Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how incorrect another comment is or you feel it is. Doing this has the obvious downside of making the threads more toxic, plus the less obvious one of discrediting the truth (assuming your comment is indeed correct) by giving it toxic associations. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - cactacea 1y ago
      edited
      - dang 1y ago
        That's better, thanks, and I don't mean to pile on! but why include "Clearly you don't use it"? One can't conclude that for sure, it's unnecessarily personal, and it doesn't add anything (other than a swipe) to the correct information in your post.
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 1y ago
  This is a claim that's going to require support. Bluesky's moderation service (just adds metadata/labels to posts/accounts) is all client side opt-in. It's force-enabled by the default client but any third party client allows you to opt-out (or doesn't even use it by default). And PDS level/"account" bans are just at the PDS. If you've been "banned", that's just bluesky the PDS host telling you they don't want to host you and that you need to go host your data yourself or find someone else to host it for you. i.e. find another PDS. Basically every form of ban or moderation in atproto/bluesky is "soft" moderation and you can fairly trivially bypass it and continue doing your own thing. The overwhelming majority of right wing accounts that get banned do so soon after joining (and generally after going to pick fights). And they never even bother to try to keep their accounts, instead choosing to create new accounts to get banned again or abandon the platform. It's disingenuous behavior and for right wing personalities it feels almost more like a sticker of pride that they were "banned from bluesky". Plenty of right leaning and libertarian accounts exist on bluesky. Project Liberal [1] and Liberal Party USA [2] (run by Josh Eakle[3] and Kevin Gaughen[4] respectively) exist just fine on bluesky and they are large splinter groups from the Libertarian Party following the whole Mises Caucus coup attempt thing. Likewise a number of libertarian groups such as the Libertarian Party of Lousiana [5] do just fine on bluesky. And of course AI and Cryptocurrency people also do just fine on bluesky as well despite the stereotypes against them and the common belief that "they aren't welcome on bluesky". The worst thing that happens is people block or mute you and you don't have to deal with them anymore rather than toxicly fighting each other each time you see each other. TLDR: Everyone is welcome on bluesky but there's no requirement for people to tolerate you. Even if you violate every transgression, as long as you aren't posting literal child porn to the network you'll still be able to exist just fine however people might just ignore you. ------------ 1. Project Liberal: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:d5nigw7kzpsglf3gtl2dvbev https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:d5nigw7kzpsglf3gtl2dvbev 2. Liberal Party USA: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:v3jmda7lwwdoofcvgmjwsbcg https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:v3jmda7lwwdoofcvgmjwsbcg 3. Josh Eakle: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:2adtngm3y6e6ol6jastnkxzm https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:2adtngm3y6e6ol6jastnkxzm 4. Kevin Gaughen: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:4oyecf2hz4ajhm4zqp52hxqo https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:4oyecf2hz4ajhm4zqp52hxqo 5. LP of Lousiana: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:mongiv55fh5l5e7vi7cbjajw https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:mongiv55fh5l5e7vi7cbjajw
- jandrese 1y ago
  [flagged]
- const_cast 1y ago
  The problem with the mentality is that conservative ideas aren't ever censored, even on mainstream platforms like Instagram. Rather, there is an association between modern conservative/libertarian voices and populist messaging - and all the pitfalls that come with it. Meaning, vulgarity, emotional bait, deception, and purposefully offensive language. Like, the modern American conservative leadership cannot advertise their own ideology without resorting to lies and attacks of character. The left, by comparison, does not operate that way. So, if you're censoring shitheads who are generally unliked, that might appear as though youre targeting conservatives or right leaning people. But you're not. Basically, the right has purposefully positioned themselves to be associated with unpalatable ideas in order to leverage populist messaging. And this worked - they won an election. The downside is that now if you filter out unpalatable ideas such as blatant slurs you're going to necessarily mostly target right wing people. By accident.
  - mikevm 1y ago
    [dead]
- psionides 1y ago
  That's funny, because the team is also regularly accused of being "libertarian tech bros"
toomuchtodo 1y ago
If interested in understanding this topic in detail, https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net has information on running your own relay network, migrating data, etc as it relates to Bluesky and AT Proto. Work continues to enable data migration, portability, alternate relay networks, etc. https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/3lbvbtqrg5t2t https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/3lbvbtqrg5t2t is particularly relevant. (blog author works at bluesky, no affiliation personally)
OneDeuxTriSeiGo 1y ago
So. You can back up your personal data to what is effectively a fancy tar ball (technically it's a collection of CAR files akin to what IPFS uses) and you can restore that to any PDS (personal data server) when you point your account there (either via your did:plc doc or via DNS records via did:web). So even if your current PDS implodes or bans you, you can just go somewhere else. And of course there are several implementations and hosts for relays (the gossip nodes), PDS implementations, clients, and appviews (the server backend for bluesky the web app). So strictly speaking if bluesky imploded tomorrow you could just use a self hosted version of the same app or use someone else's (such as https://zeppelin.social https://zeppelin.social). The PLC directory is still technically in bluesky's hands but is being transferred an independent foundation atm and could be trivially forked if needed. And of course if you use did:web that doesn't apply to you and you just depend on DNS.
- chodlog 1y ago
  But that's just your own posts isn't it? Wouldn't the replies from others, which would end up as comments on this author's blog, be in other users' CAR archives in each of their PDSes?
  - OneDeuxTriSeiGo 1y ago
    yep that'll be in their PDS. but that's the nature of the beast. you as the user control your data and your posts. So if there's a large scale exodus from bluesky, as long as full backfills of the network exist, you'll be able to reconstruct your CAR files, etc even if your PDS dies. So yes if they die all the comments disappear but people can reconstruct their history and move it to other PDS like blacksky, northsky, or others who are getting ready to start onboarding/open enrollment. TLDR it'd be a bit rough if they died overnight but if it was a slow death and people had a bit of warning you'd see people move on to other PDS without issue.
  - johnecheck 1y ago
    This is true. In the simple implementation, your blog would probably lose most comments if BlueSky went down and most users don't migrate to a new PDS. However, atproto data is append-only and cache-friendly. It wouldn't be hard to record historical comments and join them to the ones returned by the live query. (I'm probably just going to script periodic backups for mine and worry about displaying them when/if BlueSky does dissappear.)

tracker1 1y ago

Beyond this, BlueSky definitely kicks a lot of Libertarian and Right-leaning users off the platform. It seems to be okay if you're left of center or politically agnostic.

LeoPanthera 1y ago
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is it perhaps that the "right-leaning" social media users being banned are also violating the rules? Attacks and abuse seem to be standard practice, especially for the American right.
- umbra07 1y ago
  What rules are we talking about? Because my Bluesky feed (the Discover section) is filled with name-calling, hints at political violence, etc. all coming from liberal/left accounts.
  - LeoPanthera 1y ago
    That's not my experience at all.
  - kouru225 1y ago
    Seems like you might be preoccupied with rage bait and you think that it’s actually real
TimorousBestie 1y ago
Bluesky moderation has been fairly even handed as far as I have seen. They also ban plenty of leftists and trans activists when these happen to exceed the ToS. And good luck if you’re a Palestinian trying to fundraise on the platform; they get banned by the hundreds.
- Maken 1y ago
  Is there any social network in the USA which is not banning Palestinians?
cactacea 1y ago
[flagged]
- dang 1y ago
  >* stop talking out of your ass* Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how incorrect another comment is or you feel it is. Doing this has the obvious downside of making the threads more toxic, plus the less obvious one of discrediting the truth (assuming your comment is indeed correct) by giving it toxic associations. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - cactacea 1y ago
    edited
    - dang 1y ago
      That's better, thanks, and I don't mean to pile on! but why include "Clearly you don't use it"? One can't conclude that for sure, it's unnecessarily personal, and it doesn't add anything (other than a swipe) to the correct information in your post.
OneDeuxTriSeiGo 1y ago
This is a claim that's going to require support. Bluesky's moderation service (just adds metadata/labels to posts/accounts) is all client side opt-in. It's force-enabled by the default client but any third party client allows you to opt-out (or doesn't even use it by default). And PDS level/"account" bans are just at the PDS. If you've been "banned", that's just bluesky the PDS host telling you they don't want to host you and that you need to go host your data yourself or find someone else to host it for you. i.e. find another PDS. Basically every form of ban or moderation in atproto/bluesky is "soft" moderation and you can fairly trivially bypass it and continue doing your own thing. The overwhelming majority of right wing accounts that get banned do so soon after joining (and generally after going to pick fights). And they never even bother to try to keep their accounts, instead choosing to create new accounts to get banned again or abandon the platform. It's disingenuous behavior and for right wing personalities it feels almost more like a sticker of pride that they were "banned from bluesky". Plenty of right leaning and libertarian accounts exist on bluesky. Project Liberal [1] and Liberal Party USA [2] (run by Josh Eakle[3] and Kevin Gaughen[4] respectively) exist just fine on bluesky and they are large splinter groups from the Libertarian Party following the whole Mises Caucus coup attempt thing. Likewise a number of libertarian groups such as the Libertarian Party of Lousiana [5] do just fine on bluesky. And of course AI and Cryptocurrency people also do just fine on bluesky as well despite the stereotypes against them and the common belief that "they aren't welcome on bluesky". The worst thing that happens is people block or mute you and you don't have to deal with them anymore rather than toxicly fighting each other each time you see each other. TLDR: Everyone is welcome on bluesky but there's no requirement for people to tolerate you. Even if you violate every transgression, as long as you aren't posting literal child porn to the network you'll still be able to exist just fine however people might just ignore you. ------------ 1. Project Liberal: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:d5nigw7kzpsglf3gtl2dvbev https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:d5nigw7kzpsglf3gtl2dvbev 2. Liberal Party USA: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:v3jmda7lwwdoofcvgmjwsbcg https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:v3jmda7lwwdoofcvgmjwsbcg 3. Josh Eakle: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:2adtngm3y6e6ol6jastnkxzm https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:2adtngm3y6e6ol6jastnkxzm 4. Kevin Gaughen: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:4oyecf2hz4ajhm4zqp52hxqo https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:4oyecf2hz4ajhm4zqp52hxqo 5. LP of Lousiana: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:mongiv55fh5l5e7vi7cbjajw https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:mongiv55fh5l5e7vi7cbjajw
jandrese 1y ago
[flagged]
const_cast 1y ago
The problem with the mentality is that conservative ideas aren't ever censored, even on mainstream platforms like Instagram. Rather, there is an association between modern conservative/libertarian voices and populist messaging - and all the pitfalls that come with it. Meaning, vulgarity, emotional bait, deception, and purposefully offensive language. Like, the modern American conservative leadership cannot advertise their own ideology without resorting to lies and attacks of character. The left, by comparison, does not operate that way. So, if you're censoring shitheads who are generally unliked, that might appear as though youre targeting conservatives or right leaning people. But you're not. Basically, the right has purposefully positioned themselves to be associated with unpalatable ideas in order to leverage populist messaging. And this worked - they won an election. The downside is that now if you filter out unpalatable ideas such as blatant slurs you're going to necessarily mostly target right wing people. By accident.
- mikevm 1y ago
  [dead]
psionides 1y ago
That's funny, because the team is also regularly accused of being "libertarian tech bros"

toomuchtodo 1y ago

If interested in understanding this topic in detail, https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net has information on running your own relay network, migrating data, etc as it relates to Bluesky and AT Proto. Work continues to enable data migration, portability, alternate relay networks, etc. https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/3lbvbtqrg5t2t https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/3lbvbtqrg5t2t is particularly relevant. (blog author works at bluesky, no affiliation personally)

OneDeuxTriSeiGo 1y ago

So. You can back up your personal data to what is effectively a fancy tar ball (technically it's a collection of CAR files akin to what IPFS uses) and you can restore that to any PDS (personal data server) when you point your account there (either via your did:plc doc or via DNS records via did:web). So even if your current PDS implodes or bans you, you can just go somewhere else. And of course there are several implementations and hosts for relays (the gossip nodes), PDS implementations, clients, and appviews (the server backend for bluesky the web app). So strictly speaking if bluesky imploded tomorrow you could just use a self hosted version of the same app or use someone else's (such as https://zeppelin.social https://zeppelin.social). The PLC directory is still technically in bluesky's hands but is being transferred an independent foundation atm and could be trivially forked if needed. And of course if you use did:web that doesn't apply to you and you just depend on DNS.

chodlog 1y ago
But that's just your own posts isn't it? Wouldn't the replies from others, which would end up as comments on this author's blog, be in other users' CAR archives in each of their PDSes?
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 1y ago
  yep that'll be in their PDS. but that's the nature of the beast. you as the user control your data and your posts. So if there's a large scale exodus from bluesky, as long as full backfills of the network exist, you'll be able to reconstruct your CAR files, etc even if your PDS dies. So yes if they die all the comments disappear but people can reconstruct their history and move it to other PDS like blacksky, northsky, or others who are getting ready to start onboarding/open enrollment. TLDR it'd be a bit rough if they died overnight but if it was a slow death and people had a bit of warning you'd see people move on to other PDS without issue.
- johnecheck 1y ago
  This is true. In the simple implementation, your blog would probably lose most comments if BlueSky went down and most users don't migrate to a new PDS. However, atproto data is append-only and cache-friendly. It wouldn't be hard to record historical comments and join them to the ones returned by the live query. (I'm probably just going to script periodic backups for mine and worry about displaying them when/if BlueSky does dissappear.)