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FreeBSD is the first thing I try to install on a new laptop. Once I play around for an hour I install Linux for the hardware support and move on. I can't wait

FreeBSD is the first thing I try to install on a new laptop. Once I play around for an hour I install Linux for the hardware support and move on. I can't wait until the experience is good enough that I can stay on it.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
What advantages does FreeBSD bring on a laptop versus Linux?
- mouse_ 1y ago
  Anecdotally speaking, in terms of battery life, BSDs (+macOS) > Windows > Linux. Linux does not play nice with batteries.
  - myaccountonhn 1y ago
    I suspect it has improved. I'm getting 8 hours out of my 5 year old T480s and I recall getting 4 hours or so when I bought it.
    - rootnod3 1y ago
      With which battery? Cause on my T480 with FreeBSD I can ramp it to about 14 hours.
      - myaccountonhn 1y ago
        Recently installed this one https://www.ifixit.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t480s-battery https://www.ifixit.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t480s-batter... Does the T480 have that much better battery? Maybe I'm doing something wrong haha.
        rootnod3 1y ago
        That is the internal battery. Yeah, the T480 has two. An internal and a swappable. In total 96Wh.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Why could that be? Maybe the Linux distro you choose was too bloated and caused battery drain?
    - rurban 1y ago
      Because of no proper battery management, which was only recently merged.
      - tracker1 1y ago
        It seems like the 6.16 and 6.17 kernels should allow for some pretty good improvements on battery and sleep mgt across more hardware from what I understand.
  - t-3 1y ago
    That's not my experience at all. Macs are great on battery, but BSDs are not, they are by far the worst. Linux usually does ok, often better than windows, at least once properly set up. I only run BSD on my "never leave home/stay tethered" laptops because they only get 3-4 hours where Linux will get 8-12.
- yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
  First-class ZFS support is pretty compelling for any usecase.
  - grahamjperrin 1y ago
    Kubuntu 25.04 here, root on OpenZFS thanks to the installer for Ubuntu. How is OpenZFS second class on Linux? <https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/ https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/> is not perceptibly FreeBSD-first.
    - SvenL 1y ago
      Cool, one of the best features of ZFS on FreeBSD is to boot into a snapshot. ZFS boot environments are really cool.
      - chungy 1y ago
        You can get that with ZFS Boot Menu on Linux too. It was inspired by the FreeBSD boot loader.
    - vermaden 1y ago
      Root on ZFS is not a problem. While You can spend some hours installing Linux with ZFSBootMenu and LUKS encrypted Root on ZFS - there are ZERO Linux distributions that allow ZFS Boot Environments out of the box. That is the reason 'why' Linux is not the first class ZFS citizen.
      - grahamjperrin 1y ago
        LUKS-encrypted root on ZFS does not take hours. I chose encryption when I installed the OS.
        vermaden 1y ago
        When You make research how to make it for the first time - it can - if you want to check at least several different guides ... but that covers only the encryption part. There is also the ZFSBootMenu part ... If you have done this at least once - noted the commands, etc. - it will take shorter - but never shorter then FreeBSD 'Auto (ZFS)' option in the bsdinstall(8) installer where you just select the disk on which it needs to happen and hit [ENTER] key.
- philjohn 1y ago
  Not OP, but off the top of my head, it's a complete OS, kernel and user land are released as a whole. I last ran it about two decades ago, so it's been a while.
  - loeg 1y ago
    The browser and desktop and terminal you'll inevitably want to use aren't any more part of that "complete" OS than they are on Linux (and in many ways FreeBSD Ports is more immature / less well-integrated than Linux packages).
    - grahamjperrin 1y ago
      LSU context: the completeness is out of scope. Current aims include enhancement of the installer for FreeBSD; KDE Plasma and applications as an option.
  - grahamjperrin 1y ago
    Yep, the coherence is a strong point. Unfortunately, we now have a few people complaining about predictable, consistent behaviour with packaging that is coherent. The base system, FreeBSD, packaged. The complaints are about the effect of wilful force. Maybe I'm old-fashioned. When I force something with my eyes shut (ignoring warnings), I do expect the unexpected as a result of my ignorance ;-)
    - BSDobelix 1y ago
      >Maybe I'm old-fashioned. No your not, even in the Sun-Solaris time they asked themself why rm should be able to delete /. >The complaints are about the effect of wilful force. Don't make a function no one uses (because it has no function) but is able destroy the system. Compare it to a aircraft, shutdown your fuel has probably a emergency function, make a button to instantly destroy your aircraft has no real function nor will it ever be used (aka pkg remove -af). >Unfortunately, we now have a few people complaining about predictable, consistent behaviour with packaging that is coherent. That's not predictable but stupidity, try to remove all pkg/Application/Apps from MacOS, Windows, OpenBSD, NetBSD or Android...will the system boot or not? All those operating-systems make a clear distinction from the base-system to "apps" and the system should ALWAYS boot to a state where you can interact with it and so should FreeBSD. There is not a single system (no OS and no living being) in this world wheres there is a function to destroy itself would not be called a error (the worst possible one) But hey lets tell Linus (from Linus tech-tips, a Linux beginner) it's your fault because you forgot to read 100 lines, what a wannabe elitist think, there are ZERO point's, that a system should be able to make itself not booting anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4L8Oci_2Bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4L8Oci_2Bs
- vermaden 1y ago
  If you just want a browser and notepad - then ANY system would do - even Android on X86 PC. If you want a powerful development/work environment - and you do like what and how Linux provides here - use Linux - but as I was not satisfied with what/how Linux provided I looked somewhere else and I landed in FreeBSD. Here are some of the reasons and conclusions I came to after using FreeBSD (and also Linux/AIX/HP-UX/Solaris in various jobs) for about 20 years. Here: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/
  - crims0n 1y ago
    That was a good read, thank you.
    - vermaden 1y ago
      Thanks.
  - umbra07 1y ago
    Have you ever tried Fedora Silverblue? It seems like it would match FreeBSD's advantages, as listed in the first section of your blog.
    - vermaden 1y ago
      I have tried multiple Linux system and besides faster WiFi I never find what I look for on the Linux land - but thank You for suggestion. Also - even if I would be forced to use Linux - I would probably setup it with ZFSBootMenu and Root on ZFS - I believe Fedora does not allow any of these?
- loeg 1y ago
  None. If you have a particular fondness for FreeBSD and its particular set of behaviors: great. Then use it. If you really like jails, and for some reason need them on a laptop, and really don't like Linux containers, then, great.
- spauldo 1y ago
  It's not so much about advantages as it is about making the FreeBSD laptop experience better. A lot of people like FreeBSD on the desktop but use Linux on laptops because Linux has better support for those. If you're not the type of person who wants to run FreeBSD as a workstation, none of this will matter to you.
grahamjperrin 1y ago
Not exactly a new laptop, but a few days ago I spent a similar period (around an hour) toying with FreeBSD on an HP EliteBook 660 16" (G11). Very rough notes – things were rushed (squeezing as much as possible into the end of a Friday afternoon): https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/1mey64f/hp_elitebook_660_16/ https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/1mey64f/hp_elitebo...
pjmlp 1y ago
I keep waiting for the mythical day I can walk into a random computer store, and pick a laptop on display with either FreeBSD, or most common Linux distros, already pre-installed and 100% supported hardware. Last time I was able to do that was with netbooks, and even those were mostly OEM specific distros without updates, if we wanted to actually have 100% supported hardware.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago

What advantages does FreeBSD bring on a laptop versus Linux?

mouse_ 1y ago
Anecdotally speaking, in terms of battery life, BSDs (+macOS) > Windows > Linux. Linux does not play nice with batteries.
- myaccountonhn 1y ago
  I suspect it has improved. I'm getting 8 hours out of my 5 year old T480s and I recall getting 4 hours or so when I bought it.
  - rootnod3 1y ago
    With which battery? Cause on my T480 with FreeBSD I can ramp it to about 14 hours.
    - myaccountonhn 1y ago
      Recently installed this one https://www.ifixit.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t480s-battery https://www.ifixit.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t480s-batter... Does the T480 have that much better battery? Maybe I'm doing something wrong haha.
      - rootnod3 1y ago
        That is the internal battery. Yeah, the T480 has two. An internal and a swappable. In total 96Wh.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Why could that be? Maybe the Linux distro you choose was too bloated and caused battery drain?
  - rurban 1y ago
    Because of no proper battery management, which was only recently merged.
    - tracker1 1y ago
      It seems like the 6.16 and 6.17 kernels should allow for some pretty good improvements on battery and sleep mgt across more hardware from what I understand.
- t-3 1y ago
  That's not my experience at all. Macs are great on battery, but BSDs are not, they are by far the worst. Linux usually does ok, often better than windows, at least once properly set up. I only run BSD on my "never leave home/stay tethered" laptops because they only get 3-4 hours where Linux will get 8-12.
yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
First-class ZFS support is pretty compelling for any usecase.
- grahamjperrin 1y ago
  Kubuntu 25.04 here, root on OpenZFS thanks to the installer for Ubuntu. How is OpenZFS second class on Linux? <https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/ https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/> is not perceptibly FreeBSD-first.
  - SvenL 1y ago
    Cool, one of the best features of ZFS on FreeBSD is to boot into a snapshot. ZFS boot environments are really cool.
    - chungy 1y ago
      You can get that with ZFS Boot Menu on Linux too. It was inspired by the FreeBSD boot loader.
  - vermaden 1y ago
    Root on ZFS is not a problem. While You can spend some hours installing Linux with ZFSBootMenu and LUKS encrypted Root on ZFS - there are ZERO Linux distributions that allow ZFS Boot Environments out of the box. That is the reason 'why' Linux is not the first class ZFS citizen.
    - grahamjperrin 1y ago
      LUKS-encrypted root on ZFS does not take hours. I chose encryption when I installed the OS.
      - vermaden 1y ago
        When You make research how to make it for the first time - it can - if you want to check at least several different guides ... but that covers only the encryption part. There is also the ZFSBootMenu part ... If you have done this at least once - noted the commands, etc. - it will take shorter - but never shorter then FreeBSD 'Auto (ZFS)' option in the bsdinstall(8) installer where you just select the disk on which it needs to happen and hit [ENTER] key.
philjohn 1y ago
Not OP, but off the top of my head, it's a complete OS, kernel and user land are released as a whole. I last ran it about two decades ago, so it's been a while.
- loeg 1y ago
  The browser and desktop and terminal you'll inevitably want to use aren't any more part of that "complete" OS than they are on Linux (and in many ways FreeBSD Ports is more immature / less well-integrated than Linux packages).
  - grahamjperrin 1y ago
    LSU context: the completeness is out of scope. Current aims include enhancement of the installer for FreeBSD; KDE Plasma and applications as an option.
- grahamjperrin 1y ago
  Yep, the coherence is a strong point. Unfortunately, we now have a few people complaining about predictable, consistent behaviour with packaging that is coherent. The base system, FreeBSD, packaged. The complaints are about the effect of wilful force. Maybe I'm old-fashioned. When I force something with my eyes shut (ignoring warnings), I do expect the unexpected as a result of my ignorance ;-)
  - BSDobelix 1y ago
    >Maybe I'm old-fashioned. No your not, even in the Sun-Solaris time they asked themself why rm should be able to delete /. >The complaints are about the effect of wilful force. Don't make a function no one uses (because it has no function) but is able destroy the system. Compare it to a aircraft, shutdown your fuel has probably a emergency function, make a button to instantly destroy your aircraft has no real function nor will it ever be used (aka pkg remove -af). >Unfortunately, we now have a few people complaining about predictable, consistent behaviour with packaging that is coherent. That's not predictable but stupidity, try to remove all pkg/Application/Apps from MacOS, Windows, OpenBSD, NetBSD or Android...will the system boot or not? All those operating-systems make a clear distinction from the base-system to "apps" and the system should ALWAYS boot to a state where you can interact with it and so should FreeBSD. There is not a single system (no OS and no living being) in this world wheres there is a function to destroy itself would not be called a error (the worst possible one) But hey lets tell Linus (from Linus tech-tips, a Linux beginner) it's your fault because you forgot to read 100 lines, what a wannabe elitist think, there are ZERO point's, that a system should be able to make itself not booting anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4L8Oci_2Bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4L8Oci_2Bs
vermaden 1y ago
If you just want a browser and notepad - then ANY system would do - even Android on X86 PC. If you want a powerful development/work environment - and you do like what and how Linux provides here - use Linux - but as I was not satisfied with what/how Linux provided I looked somewhere else and I landed in FreeBSD. Here are some of the reasons and conclusions I came to after using FreeBSD (and also Linux/AIX/HP-UX/Solaris in various jobs) for about 20 years. Here: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/
- crims0n 1y ago
  That was a good read, thank you.
  - vermaden 1y ago
    Thanks.
- umbra07 1y ago
  Have you ever tried Fedora Silverblue? It seems like it would match FreeBSD's advantages, as listed in the first section of your blog.
  - vermaden 1y ago
    I have tried multiple Linux system and besides faster WiFi I never find what I look for on the Linux land - but thank You for suggestion. Also - even if I would be forced to use Linux - I would probably setup it with ZFSBootMenu and Root on ZFS - I believe Fedora does not allow any of these?
loeg 1y ago
None. If you have a particular fondness for FreeBSD and its particular set of behaviors: great. Then use it. If you really like jails, and for some reason need them on a laptop, and really don't like Linux containers, then, great.
spauldo 1y ago
It's not so much about advantages as it is about making the FreeBSD laptop experience better. A lot of people like FreeBSD on the desktop but use Linux on laptops because Linux has better support for those. If you're not the type of person who wants to run FreeBSD as a workstation, none of this will matter to you.

grahamjperrin 1y ago

Not exactly a new laptop, but a few days ago I spent a similar period (around an hour) toying with FreeBSD on an HP EliteBook 660 16" (G11). Very rough notes – things were rushed (squeezing as much as possible into the end of a Friday afternoon): https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/1mey64f/hp_elitebook_660_16/ https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/1mey64f/hp_elitebo...

pjmlp 1y ago

I keep waiting for the mythical day I can walk into a random computer store, and pick a laptop on display with either FreeBSD, or most common Linux distros, already pre-installed and 100% supported hardware. Last time I was able to do that was with netbooks, and even those were mostly OEM specific distros without updates, if we wanted to actually have 100% supported hardware.