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> highly processed foods like burgers, pastries, snacks and pizza Is a burger highly processed? Home-made burgers seem not to fall into that bucket. (Hot dogs,

> highly processed foods like burgers, pastries, snacks and pizza Is a burger highly processed? Home-made burgers seem not to fall into that bucket. (Hot dogs, I can buy as being it, but burgers not.)

garbawarb 1y ago
Is pizza? Basic pizza is just wheat, mozzarella, and tomato sauce. It's cooked, but I guess cooking is a process.
- owebmaster 1y ago
  Pizza is processed. Frozen pizza is ultra proccessed
  - vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago
    Home made pizza is fine. The frozen stuff is mostly terrible with too much salt, sugar and god knows what else.
- cpursley 1y ago
  Check what's in the tomato sauce and dough (hint: sugar)
  - Milpotel 1y ago
    "Simple" sugar doesn't make it ultra processed, it's the modified starch, glucose syrup, emulsifiers, ...
    - cpursley 1y ago
      Sure, that's what I meant.
  - garbawarb 1y ago
    Indeed, adding sugar is a process.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > Basic pizza is just wheat, No, it’s flour, which is a heavily processed wheat product. > mozzarella Which is a heavily processed food that differs greatly from the input products. > tomato sauce Also processed. Likely has added sugar. It’s interested to read these conversations and see that the frame of reference has shifted so much that obviously highly processed ingredients aren’t tripping people’s processed food detectors. Then the language used isn’t picking up on the processing (calling it wheat instead of flour).
  - a_shovel 1y ago
    Are we counting flour as ultra-processed now? Are we going to have a discussion on the ultra-processed diet of the medieval peasant?
    - Aurornis 1y ago
      My comment said higher processed. The enriched, bleached, white, non whole wheat flour is highly processed. Putting it into bread products with flavor enhancing additives and shelf life enhancing preservatives like you see in the hamburger buns at the store would make it ultra processed. > Are we going to have a discussion on the ultra-processed diet of the medieval peasant? Are you intentionally missing the point? A medieval peasant processing whole wheat into flour and then making a recipe out of it without added sugar and preservatives is a lot less processed than modern white flour production that goes into hyper-palatable foods on the shelf. The average pizza that kids or adults consume is not from fresh, hand-made flour like a medieval peasant. It’s from the industrial process and it generally has flavor enhancing additives (sugar). We’re talking Domino’s pizza for most people, not an artisanal handmade pizza with freshly ground flour.
      - llm_nerd 1y ago
        >It’s from the industrial process and it generally has flavor enhancing additives (sugar). Just had to jump in on this. We have gotten way too accustomed to calling out sugar as a particular villain in stories like this, and it misses the forest for the trees. It makes it easy to think that removing sugar suddenly makes a product healthy. In the same way that we as a society went through that very foolish period where we thought "low fat" made a product healthy. An average pizza dough for a large pizza has about 270g of 00 white flour. 75% of that flour is glucose chained into starches, or about 202g of glucose. The same pizza dough will have around 1.5 tsp of sugar, or about 6g of sucrose. About 3g of that is glucose. So in that pizza dough people will often shriek and point at the 3g of glucose courtesy of the sugar, blind to the fact that the flour added an enormous 202g of glucose. Glucose that will end up as blood glucose extremely rapidly (the body close to instantly cracks starches of refined flours into individual glucose molecules). I've harped on here about this a lot, but sugar is simply not the big problem people think it is, at least relative to many diets where it is absolutely dwarfed by the glucose contribution of simple carbs. And to be extra clear, such a meal is perfectly fine if you're highly active and follow it up by a game of soccer or a hike or some other venture that uses that glucose to feed muscles. But for the average person it's followed by doing nothing, and their already insulin resistant body goes through trials to deal with the flood.
dinfinity 1y ago
Just like the term "ultraprocessed foods" the term "sandwich" is very badly defined. I can't determine whether the study differentiates between healthy home made sandwiches and junk food that contains some kind of "bread".
- Milpotel 1y ago
  > healthy home made sandwiches That would include baking your own bread which is not common in the US afaik.
  - jltsiren 1y ago
    Or just buying decent bread. The selection of breads in the average American supermarket seems pretty bad compared to what I was used to in Finland.
    - Milpotel 1y ago
      Unfortunately, getting "decent bread" is not as easy as it has been years ago even in countries having the best bread and largest variety in the world such as Germany, Switzerland, Austria, ... Many small bakeries started adding artificial ingredients to extend shelf life, shorten production time or replace expensive ingredients.
      - arp242 1y ago
        Pretty much anything you get in mainland Europe is still tons better than the vague bread-shaped organic matter they sell at supermarkets in Ireland or the UK. Seems to be an Anglo thing because my experience in New Zealand was similar (can't speak to the US though). That doesn't mean you can't find decent bread even at supermarkets, but it's not the default and quite a lot more expensive. The main exception in Ireland is Lidl, which sells decent bread for a decent price.
        Milpotel 1y ago
        > exception in Ireland is Lidl Sorry but this is UPF bread and their rolls are sometimes made in China. > sell at supermarkets in Ireland or the UK At least in London there are many shops now that sell bread that at least looks like bread (Ole & Steen, Gail's, ...). I can't remember any ingredient lists, so likely UPF as well...
oblio 1y ago
I imagine low quality burger meat contains a lot of stuff, not just lean muscle.
- AJ007 1y ago
  Or even horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal
  - Milpotel 1y ago
    Horse tastes fine and I'd prefer it over UPF crap all the time.
    - rsynnott 1y ago
      The _real_ scandal in that horse meat thing wasn't so much the fact that it was horse, but the fact that, clearly, the traceability system had utterly broken down.
senko 1y ago
From the article: > If the ingredients include artificial colors and chemicals that aren’t normally found in the kitchen, the item is likely ultra-processed. Curious to see sandwiches included in the list (and the top "offender", no less). Home-made ones can be pretty healthy! Edit to add: the study says: > "Ultra-processed foods tend to be hyperpalatable, energy-dense, low in dietary fiber, and contain little or no whole foods, while having high amounts of salt, sweeteners, and unhealthy fats". The study page also contains a more precise definition (using something called Nova classification).
Aurornis 1y ago
Highly processed flour bun. Slice of highly processed cheese. Highly processed ketchup sauce on top. An unprocessed slice of tomato and lettuce if you’re lucky. Conversations about processed foods reveal a lot about how our perspectives have shifted so much. Something like a burger is stacked with highly processed items.

garbawarb 1y ago

Is pizza? Basic pizza is just wheat, mozzarella, and tomato sauce. It's cooked, but I guess cooking is a process.

owebmaster 1y ago
Pizza is processed. Frozen pizza is ultra proccessed
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago
  Home made pizza is fine. The frozen stuff is mostly terrible with too much salt, sugar and god knows what else.
cpursley 1y ago
Check what's in the tomato sauce and dough (hint: sugar)
- Milpotel 1y ago
  "Simple" sugar doesn't make it ultra processed, it's the modified starch, glucose syrup, emulsifiers, ...
  - cpursley 1y ago
    Sure, that's what I meant.
- garbawarb 1y ago
  Indeed, adding sugar is a process.
Aurornis 1y ago
> Basic pizza is just wheat, No, it’s flour, which is a heavily processed wheat product. > mozzarella Which is a heavily processed food that differs greatly from the input products. > tomato sauce Also processed. Likely has added sugar. It’s interested to read these conversations and see that the frame of reference has shifted so much that obviously highly processed ingredients aren’t tripping people’s processed food detectors. Then the language used isn’t picking up on the processing (calling it wheat instead of flour).
- a_shovel 1y ago
  Are we counting flour as ultra-processed now? Are we going to have a discussion on the ultra-processed diet of the medieval peasant?
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    My comment said higher processed. The enriched, bleached, white, non whole wheat flour is highly processed. Putting it into bread products with flavor enhancing additives and shelf life enhancing preservatives like you see in the hamburger buns at the store would make it ultra processed. > Are we going to have a discussion on the ultra-processed diet of the medieval peasant? Are you intentionally missing the point? A medieval peasant processing whole wheat into flour and then making a recipe out of it without added sugar and preservatives is a lot less processed than modern white flour production that goes into hyper-palatable foods on the shelf. The average pizza that kids or adults consume is not from fresh, hand-made flour like a medieval peasant. It’s from the industrial process and it generally has flavor enhancing additives (sugar). We’re talking Domino’s pizza for most people, not an artisanal handmade pizza with freshly ground flour.
    - llm_nerd 1y ago
      >It’s from the industrial process and it generally has flavor enhancing additives (sugar). Just had to jump in on this. We have gotten way too accustomed to calling out sugar as a particular villain in stories like this, and it misses the forest for the trees. It makes it easy to think that removing sugar suddenly makes a product healthy. In the same way that we as a society went through that very foolish period where we thought "low fat" made a product healthy. An average pizza dough for a large pizza has about 270g of 00 white flour. 75% of that flour is glucose chained into starches, or about 202g of glucose. The same pizza dough will have around 1.5 tsp of sugar, or about 6g of sucrose. About 3g of that is glucose. So in that pizza dough people will often shriek and point at the 3g of glucose courtesy of the sugar, blind to the fact that the flour added an enormous 202g of glucose. Glucose that will end up as blood glucose extremely rapidly (the body close to instantly cracks starches of refined flours into individual glucose molecules). I've harped on here about this a lot, but sugar is simply not the big problem people think it is, at least relative to many diets where it is absolutely dwarfed by the glucose contribution of simple carbs. And to be extra clear, such a meal is perfectly fine if you're highly active and follow it up by a game of soccer or a hike or some other venture that uses that glucose to feed muscles. But for the average person it's followed by doing nothing, and their already insulin resistant body goes through trials to deal with the flood.

dinfinity 1y ago

Just like the term "ultraprocessed foods" the term "sandwich" is very badly defined. I can't determine whether the study differentiates between healthy home made sandwiches and junk food that contains some kind of "bread".

Milpotel 1y ago
> healthy home made sandwiches That would include baking your own bread which is not common in the US afaik.
- jltsiren 1y ago
  Or just buying decent bread. The selection of breads in the average American supermarket seems pretty bad compared to what I was used to in Finland.
  - Milpotel 1y ago
    Unfortunately, getting "decent bread" is not as easy as it has been years ago even in countries having the best bread and largest variety in the world such as Germany, Switzerland, Austria, ... Many small bakeries started adding artificial ingredients to extend shelf life, shorten production time or replace expensive ingredients.
    - arp242 1y ago
      Pretty much anything you get in mainland Europe is still tons better than the vague bread-shaped organic matter they sell at supermarkets in Ireland or the UK. Seems to be an Anglo thing because my experience in New Zealand was similar (can't speak to the US though). That doesn't mean you can't find decent bread even at supermarkets, but it's not the default and quite a lot more expensive. The main exception in Ireland is Lidl, which sells decent bread for a decent price.
      - Milpotel 1y ago
        > exception in Ireland is Lidl Sorry but this is UPF bread and their rolls are sometimes made in China. > sell at supermarkets in Ireland or the UK At least in London there are many shops now that sell bread that at least looks like bread (Ole & Steen, Gail's, ...). I can't remember any ingredient lists, so likely UPF as well...

oblio 1y ago

I imagine low quality burger meat contains a lot of stuff, not just lean muscle.

AJ007 1y ago
Or even horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal
- Milpotel 1y ago
  Horse tastes fine and I'd prefer it over UPF crap all the time.
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    The _real_ scandal in that horse meat thing wasn't so much the fact that it was horse, but the fact that, clearly, the traceability system had utterly broken down.

senko 1y ago

From the article: > If the ingredients include artificial colors and chemicals that aren’t normally found in the kitchen, the item is likely ultra-processed. Curious to see sandwiches included in the list (and the top "offender", no less). Home-made ones can be pretty healthy! Edit to add: the study says: > "Ultra-processed foods tend to be hyperpalatable, energy-dense, low in dietary fiber, and contain little or no whole foods, while having high amounts of salt, sweeteners, and unhealthy fats". The study page also contains a more precise definition (using something called Nova classification).

Aurornis 1y ago

Highly processed flour bun. Slice of highly processed cheese. Highly processed ketchup sauce on top. An unprocessed slice of tomato and lettuce if you’re lucky. Conversations about processed foods reveal a lot about how our perspectives have shifted so much. Something like a burger is stacked with highly processed items.