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Israel did not “put Hamas in power.” Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections. These were monitored by international observers, including the Carter

by nelox 1y ago

Israel did not “put Hamas in power.” Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections. These were monitored by international observers, including the Carter Center, who confirmed the vote was largely fair: https://cartercenter.org/news/pr/palestine_013006.html https://cartercenter.org/news/pr/palestine_013006.html. The idea that Israel created Hamas is a misrepresentation of historic tactical decisions in the 1980s, when Israel tolerated some Islamist activity as a counterweight to the PLO. That is not the same as “putting Hamas in power,” and certainly not a reason to ignore Hamas’s current actions. As for land and citizenship, roughly 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab, including Muslims and Christians, with full voting rights. The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are not Israeli citizens because they are governed by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas respectively, per the Oslo Accords. Israel cannot unilaterally give them citizenship without dismantling those agreements, which Palestinians also signed. See: https://ecf.org.il/issues/issue/153 https://ecf.org.il/issues/issue/153. Calling the situation “colonialism” ignores the fact that both sides claim historic ties to the land and have engaged in multiple rounds of negotiations. That includes offers of statehood rejected by Palestinian leadership, notably in 2000 and 2008. See: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/magazine/28israel-t.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/magazine/28israel-t.html. Security and morality are not mutually exclusive. Both sides deserve accountability and safety.

spwa4 1y ago
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- ath3nd 1y ago
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  - spwa4 1y ago
    Not that I'd ever suggest someone take wikipedia as their only source, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Musl... And, to show you that hamas (and other muslim terror orgs AND orthodox islamic institutes that are "not" terrorists) want to bring this back: https://icct.nl/publication/isis-and-their-use-slavery https://icct.nl/publication/isis-and-their-use-slavery And even in this conflict where you're defending the agressors: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpw5v077nyjo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpw5v077nyjo https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-noa-argamani-idf-spotters-were-held-as-slaves-in-a-luxury-villa-in-gaza-then-taken-into-tunnels https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-noa-argama...
    - ath3nd 1y ago
      > And even in this conflict where you're defending the agressors: > https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpw5v077nyjo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpw5v077nyjo Bad for that lady, never good to keep people in captivity. If you are so sympathetic for people being kept in captivity, you should really decry the fact that Israel is keeping 2 million Palestinians in captivity in their own country. > And even in this conflict where you're defending the agressors: Are the 20k children and 30k women that Israel killed also aggressors? If that's the case, the 1400 people Hamas killed must have been also aggressors. See, it works both ways.
7952 1y ago
Talk of colonialism often descends into semantics. I think the main issue with Israeli policy in this regard is that Israelis are attempting and succeeding to expel people from their homes. That is happening on the west bank now.
nielsbot 1y ago
> Israel did not “put Hamas in power.” I said helped put Hamas in power. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... > not a reason to ignore Hamas’s current actions The problematic actions under discussion are the genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza. > Israel cannot unilaterally give them citizenship without dismantling those agreements, which Palestinians also signed So you're saying they wouldn't go for it? Let's ask them. > both sides claim historic ties to the land You act as if the land was empty when the Zionists showed up. > Security and morality are not mutually exclusive Depends how you define security. Israel is defining it as genocide. And we're not even mentioning the horrible actions happening in the West Bank. Or in Syria and Lebanon for that matter. > Both sides deserve accountability and safety This is not symmetrical. One side has modern weapons, surveillance, air power, an modern army and an embargo on the other with the backing of the US (and other Western states.)

by nelox 1y ago

spwa4 1y ago

[flagged]

ath3nd 1y ago
[flagged]
- spwa4 1y ago
  Not that I'd ever suggest someone take wikipedia as their only source, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Musl... And, to show you that hamas (and other muslim terror orgs AND orthodox islamic institutes that are "not" terrorists) want to bring this back: https://icct.nl/publication/isis-and-their-use-slavery https://icct.nl/publication/isis-and-their-use-slavery And even in this conflict where you're defending the agressors: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpw5v077nyjo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpw5v077nyjo https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-noa-argamani-idf-spotters-were-held-as-slaves-in-a-luxury-villa-in-gaza-then-taken-into-tunnels https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-noa-argama...
  - ath3nd 1y ago
    > And even in this conflict where you're defending the agressors: > https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpw5v077nyjo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpw5v077nyjo Bad for that lady, never good to keep people in captivity. If you are so sympathetic for people being kept in captivity, you should really decry the fact that Israel is keeping 2 million Palestinians in captivity in their own country. > And even in this conflict where you're defending the agressors: Are the 20k children and 30k women that Israel killed also aggressors? If that's the case, the 1400 people Hamas killed must have been also aggressors. See, it works both ways.

7952 1y ago

Talk of colonialism often descends into semantics. I think the main issue with Israeli policy in this regard is that Israelis are attempting and succeeding to expel people from their homes. That is happening on the west bank now.

nielsbot 1y ago

> Israel did not “put Hamas in power.” I said helped put Hamas in power. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... > not a reason to ignore Hamas’s current actions The problematic actions under discussion are the genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza. > Israel cannot unilaterally give them citizenship without dismantling those agreements, which Palestinians also signed So you're saying they wouldn't go for it? Let's ask them. > both sides claim historic ties to the land You act as if the land was empty when the Zionists showed up. > Security and morality are not mutually exclusive Depends how you define security. Israel is defining it as genocide. And we're not even mentioning the horrible actions happening in the West Bank. Or in Syria and Lebanon for that matter. > Both sides deserve accountability and safety This is not symmetrical. One side has modern weapons, surveillance, air power, an modern army and an embargo on the other with the backing of the US (and other Western states.)