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What you are saying is understating the problem. Today's debt-based national economics allows people alive today to gain benefits while placing the resultant co

What you are saying is understating the problem. Today's debt-based national economics allows people alive today to gain benefits while placing the resultant costs/restrictions on the people who are not yet born (or are currently children). Debt-based economics is one of the biggest subversion of democracy. Decisions are being made for people who can't vote.

jlhawn 1y ago
This comment is one of the things I refer to in my top-level comment. People have just enough of an education in economics and an understanding of personal finance and budgeting to be dangerous. They conflate economics with federal budget politics, have a one-sided and incomplete view of what debt is (especially US national debt), and then build a whole model of a system called "debt-based economics" which is based on political observations instead of fundamental economic understanding.
dismalaf 1y ago
The problem isn't the concept of debt. The problem is people vote for the own interests ie. handouts and kicking the can down the road to the next generation. You can have debt in a society without accumulating more in perpetuity. Debt is a money multiplier and fine, never paying it off is the issue.
- abdullahkhalids 1y ago
  Indeed, debt is simply a tool that can be used in the good or bad ways. I think we agree that this tool is sometimes used poorly in general by countries, often because voters/politicians don't listen to prescriptions by economists. What I am saying is that poor use of this tool leads to not only economic problems, but it is fundamentally at odds with democracy. If you vote to take on large debts that the future generation have to "pay" [1], you have taken away their democratic right, in a way that is distinct from other economic tools. The current generation can vote to have low taxes or high taxes, but that doesn't have much impact (modulo infrastructure maintenance) on future generations ability to exercise their democratic rights. Debt is unique in this regard. [1] Pay in quotes because future generations might pay directly via taxes, or indirectly via higher inflation or by working hard to make gdp larger etc.
hgomersall 1y ago
Debt is money is debt. You can't separate the two. What is "debt" at the state level of a sovereign state is just book debt, which is to say, numbers that balance the money creation. The real crime is paying interest on that "debt".

jlhawn 1y ago

This comment is one of the things I refer to in my top-level comment. People have just enough of an education in economics and an understanding of personal finance and budgeting to be dangerous. They conflate economics with federal budget politics, have a one-sided and incomplete view of what debt is (especially US national debt), and then build a whole model of a system called "debt-based economics" which is based on political observations instead of fundamental economic understanding.

dismalaf 1y ago

The problem isn't the concept of debt. The problem is people vote for the own interests ie. handouts and kicking the can down the road to the next generation. You can have debt in a society without accumulating more in perpetuity. Debt is a money multiplier and fine, never paying it off is the issue.

abdullahkhalids 1y ago
Indeed, debt is simply a tool that can be used in the good or bad ways. I think we agree that this tool is sometimes used poorly in general by countries, often because voters/politicians don't listen to prescriptions by economists. What I am saying is that poor use of this tool leads to not only economic problems, but it is fundamentally at odds with democracy. If you vote to take on large debts that the future generation have to "pay" [1], you have taken away their democratic right, in a way that is distinct from other economic tools. The current generation can vote to have low taxes or high taxes, but that doesn't have much impact (modulo infrastructure maintenance) on future generations ability to exercise their democratic rights. Debt is unique in this regard. [1] Pay in quotes because future generations might pay directly via taxes, or indirectly via higher inflation or by working hard to make gdp larger etc.

hgomersall 1y ago

Debt is money is debt. You can't separate the two. What is "debt" at the state level of a sovereign state is just book debt, which is to say, numbers that balance the money creation. The real crime is paying interest on that "debt".