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Fair enough, and then your iOS should just report the list of permissions the app demanded, maybe even compare to the AppStore version, and then let people make

Fair enough, and then your iOS should just report the list of permissions the app demanded, maybe even compare to the AppStore version, and then let people make their choice. It doesn't have to be a "one click" easy way to make mistakes. Most users won't bother to go through 3 extra steps to install the "alternative" app if they aren't missing anything in the regular one. The OS should anyway sandbox everything, and be as isolated as possible from any app running on top of it. That's the real security, everything else is mostly privacy - as in it's not really a security issue that the FB app siphons all the data I allowed it to access.

nuker 1y ago
> and then let people make their choice. Some apps are de-facto unavoidable, like Facebook, Whatsapp and X.
- Hamuko 1y ago
  The only one of those on my phone is X and it's definitely avoidable.
- q3k 1y ago
  I have, in fact, none of these on my phone.
- Zak 1y ago
  That seems like a bit of a stretch. Whatsapp is probably the hardest to avoid for most people in parts of the world where it's dominant. The number of people who need to use Facebook or Twitter is likely much smaller, and very few of those need to install a native app instead of using the website.
- close04 1y ago
  They absolutely are not. No more than alcohol or tobacco addiction are de-facto unavoidable. And the people who are absolutely addicted to those platforms will always have the option of the web page no matter what you do to the app.
  - soraminazuki 1y ago
    Ah yes, like "alcohol or tobacco," communicating with people is an addiction that must be stopped. Participating in society is a choice. /s
  - skinnymuch 1y ago
    WhatsApp is used to talk to people across the world. It’s not like tobacco at all. If I got off WhatsApp which I use for like 10 minutes a week, I’d have a harder time communicating with a handful of people outside the US
- skinnymuch 1y ago
  Twitter is incredibly avoidable. Everything about it is likely faked and exaggerated. Revenue/profit for sure. Number of users for sure. Number of users that aren’t bots for sure too. I use Twitter everyday because of my politics interest but it isn’t that popular any more (I know the supposed numbers say otherwise)
cosmic_cheese 1y ago
I think the real issue is that without enforcement measures, apps by bad actors like Facebook have free rein to find holes in the sandbox and similar. Even in the event that iOS allows choice of App Store globally, it might not be the worst thing to let them keep a kill switch on automatic distribution of individual apps (which once flipped off, users would need to sideload the app in question) so when some third party dev tries to pull that kind of stunt there will be consequences.
- close04 1y ago
  Then Apple can just work harder on securing the OS. When desktop OS security is discussed does anyone ever seriously float the idea that maybe we should only allow MS, Apple, or Linus approved apps to run on the OS to avoid hackers having free rein to find holes? The market for sideloading apps is anyway much smaller than the whole mobile market because most people can’t be bothered to do it. The ones determined to install that shady flashlight app they downloaded from the internet will just as well give their banking credentials to any app that asks for them.
  - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
    No matter how much Apple invests into security, parties like Meta will find holes to exploit because it’s profitable to do so. It’s a cat and mouse game, and so even though Apple should be investing in security they also need to be able to put an end to the game when there’s obvious abuse afoot. I’m not as supportive of this ability for computers, but the market is so broad and large for mobile devices that I feel it’s a bit of a different creature. And yes, I agree that for sideloaded apps all bets are off. That’s why I mentioned Apple having a kill switch only on automated distribution, e.g. through app stores (first party or otherwise). So for example if it turns out that Facebook has been making constant use of exploits for a while, jumping from one to the next as they’re fixed — in this situation Apple can stop it from being installed or updated from any app store (even one run by Meta), meaning the only way to install or update it is through fully manual side loading until they clean their act up.
    - 1y ago
kmeisthax 1y ago
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nuker 1y ago

> and then let people make their choice. Some apps are de-facto unavoidable, like Facebook, Whatsapp and X.

Hamuko 1y ago
The only one of those on my phone is X and it's definitely avoidable.
q3k 1y ago
I have, in fact, none of these on my phone.
Zak 1y ago
That seems like a bit of a stretch. Whatsapp is probably the hardest to avoid for most people in parts of the world where it's dominant. The number of people who need to use Facebook or Twitter is likely much smaller, and very few of those need to install a native app instead of using the website.
close04 1y ago
They absolutely are not. No more than alcohol or tobacco addiction are de-facto unavoidable. And the people who are absolutely addicted to those platforms will always have the option of the web page no matter what you do to the app.
- soraminazuki 1y ago
  Ah yes, like "alcohol or tobacco," communicating with people is an addiction that must be stopped. Participating in society is a choice. /s
- skinnymuch 1y ago
  WhatsApp is used to talk to people across the world. It’s not like tobacco at all. If I got off WhatsApp which I use for like 10 minutes a week, I’d have a harder time communicating with a handful of people outside the US
skinnymuch 1y ago
Twitter is incredibly avoidable. Everything about it is likely faked and exaggerated. Revenue/profit for sure. Number of users for sure. Number of users that aren’t bots for sure too. I use Twitter everyday because of my politics interest but it isn’t that popular any more (I know the supposed numbers say otherwise)

cosmic_cheese 1y ago

I think the real issue is that without enforcement measures, apps by bad actors like Facebook have free rein to find holes in the sandbox and similar. Even in the event that iOS allows choice of App Store globally, it might not be the worst thing to let them keep a kill switch on automatic distribution of individual apps (which once flipped off, users would need to sideload the app in question) so when some third party dev tries to pull that kind of stunt there will be consequences.

close04 1y ago
Then Apple can just work harder on securing the OS. When desktop OS security is discussed does anyone ever seriously float the idea that maybe we should only allow MS, Apple, or Linus approved apps to run on the OS to avoid hackers having free rein to find holes? The market for sideloading apps is anyway much smaller than the whole mobile market because most people can’t be bothered to do it. The ones determined to install that shady flashlight app they downloaded from the internet will just as well give their banking credentials to any app that asks for them.
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  No matter how much Apple invests into security, parties like Meta will find holes to exploit because it’s profitable to do so. It’s a cat and mouse game, and so even though Apple should be investing in security they also need to be able to put an end to the game when there’s obvious abuse afoot. I’m not as supportive of this ability for computers, but the market is so broad and large for mobile devices that I feel it’s a bit of a different creature. And yes, I agree that for sideloaded apps all bets are off. That’s why I mentioned Apple having a kill switch only on automated distribution, e.g. through app stores (first party or otherwise). So for example if it turns out that Facebook has been making constant use of exploits for a while, jumping from one to the next as they’re fixed — in this situation Apple can stop it from being installed or updated from any app store (even one run by Meta), meaning the only way to install or update it is through fully manual side loading until they clean their act up.
  - 1y ago

kmeisthax 1y ago

[dead]