8 ms·

Do citizens in the EU actually want this? If not, how are EU politicians so disconnected from their citizens? How did this state of affairs come to be? Is it

by efitz 1y ago

Do citizens in the EU actually want this? If not, how are EU politicians so disconnected from their citizens? How did this state of affairs come to be? Is it reversible? In the US, our politicians don’t diverge quite as much, but when they do, the reason is money, and when it gets bad, we throw the bums out and elect populists. It’s not pretty and it’s messy but it self corrects with the next election if it doesn’t work out how people wanted.

deafpolygon 1y ago
no, many of the citizens are just like any other country: some of them aren’t aware this is happening.
amarcheschi 1y ago
Most of the people I know - and I live in eu - are not knowledgeable about these topics. Furthermore, I've never heard about this in one of the main news channels, so I guess that most people don't even know about it
- p0w3n3d 1y ago
  There's this "I have nothing to hide" sentiment followed by blind trusts into officials, their intentions and their alleged protection. I.e. people are scares of terrorism and would like it to stop, so they hope the terrorists will be found by spying. At least in countries where the terrorism emerged recently, I'd say...
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    Being "scared of terrorism" is perfectly legitimate even if not underpinned by statistics. The conversion from that to "so therefore the .gov ought to have powers that amount turnkey ability to violate human rights on a whim" is the problem. Any "well actually terrorists aren't that big a deal" discussion only serves to bog things down in the weeds and direct blame away from bad people who believe bad things. Replace terrorism with whatever the cause of the day is, drugs, satanic cults, tax evasion, etc, etc all you want, doesn't change anything. There are people who believe (though they'll rarely admit it when you lay it so bare) that you can take something that is flagrantly bad in its base or default form (like for example letting the government just read everyone's personal communication by default) and think that the fact that because it can be applied toward noble ends then it is a power the .gov ought to have access to by default.
  - hintklb 1y ago
    You are right. As a European that lived in the US for a long time, a big difference is that there is also a lot of "European Conformism". You don't want to be seen as the weird one protesting things if nobody else does it. It's just easier to go with the flow and accept things.
johannes1234321 1y ago
A notable amount of people vote for parties suggesting such ideas. Demonstrations against are small. Only few people write to their government and their MEPs. This is probably sourced in not understanding it and not having enough information, but for as long as those three factors remain those are the results of democracy. (Democracy in the EU is complex topic in itself, as EU isn't a state, but a union of independent states where states are primarily represented by their government and the directly elected parliament plays a smaller role ... but given the little protest that's the smaller issue in this case)
hintklb 1y ago
EU citizens have way too much trust in their government and elected officials. A lot of people here just assume officials act in the interest of the population and most people don't really check or care to understand in detail those type of proposals. And unlike the US, very few people are going to push back based on "freedom" and "my rights" which is unfortunate in my opinion. This lack of pushback is why those types of proposal even come to be.
- shafyy 1y ago
  That's not true. The issue with EU is that it's not really representative, and this is being critised for a long time and I hope should change in the near future. The EU parliament (the only directly elected body of the EU) does currently not have enough power.
  - hintklb 1y ago
    I'm a European citizen and I disagree. Compared to the US and a lot of places in the world, Europeans generally care less and have more trust in their government. There is a general sense that elected officials generally do what is best for the people. This leads to less scrutiny and push back in general. Definitely way less than in the US.
    - shafyy 1y ago
      This probably differs from country to country though. I have worked and lived in Switzerland (I know, not EU), Germany and US, and it does not feel like people don't care here in EU. In fact, in terms of people going out on the streets and demonstrating, it takes a lot less in countries like Germany and France to so compared to the US, in my experience. For example in Switzerland, there's the instrument of a "Volksinitiative". If you can collect 100k signatures, the government must hold a national election on this issue. And these are quite common and popular in Switzerland. In Germany, those unfortunately only exist on a state-level, not federal level, but are also common. So, in my experience, people are very much involved in government here. This might be different in different EU countries of course. Or maybe you have a vastly different bubble you live in than I do.
hedora 1y ago
The US government has almost completely diverged from the will of the people at this point. Most actions taken by this administration have > 65% disapproval ratings, and according to historical norms, if the size of current protests double, the people will overthrow the government. The last time I checked, the ongoing ICE raids against civilians were one of the more popular policies.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
rc_mob 1y ago
The USA elected a fascist and will be lucky to have fair voting ever again. So we're not really qualified to comment on any other country doing anything.
- vixen99 1y ago
  Maybe but I don't follow your 'So ...'. Just who decides the qualification? I suspect that most here will agree with you. However in the interests of encouraging a sober analysis: https://www.villagenews.com/story/2025/06/20/opinion/is-trump-a-fascist-a-closer-look-at-the-claims-and-the-counterpoints/79106.html https://www.villagenews.com/story/2025/06/20/opinion/is-trum...
- OldfieldFund 1y ago
  two things can be bad at the same time. also US is not the end all be all of things
wqaatwt 1y ago
Simple. The EU is hardly a democracy. It’s run almost entirely by appointed bureaucrats with delusions of grandeur. The European parliament is there but it’s very weak relative to actual national parliaments and most people unfortunately don’t really care that much about politics on the EU level..
- izacus 1y ago
  Please stop spreding this bullshit.
  - wqaatwt 1y ago
    In what way exactly is it bullshit? For better or for worse the core institution or decision making processes were never designed to be democratic in any meaningful way.
    - izacus 1y ago
      Because it is bullshit without any basis and doesn't fit the reality which is modelled after most democracies on the planet. And no, I'm not going to play the game where you spew out whatever comes to mind and then I do work to debunk your claims. Do the legwork and prove your BS.
      - wqaatwt 1y ago
        > Do the legwork and prove your BS. Seems like a bizarre waste of time considering that that you already made up your mind to such an extent that you ate not even willing to explain what are you even trying to say. > and doesn't fit the reality which is modelled after most democracies on the planet Well yes, because the EU is rather unique compared to pretty much any post 1800s democracy.
  - mirko22 1y ago
    How is this BS? Where is democracy in Von der Leyen making deal with USA for example, who voted for that? Most of the representatives there are local tokens that are there to pull EU money in the pockets of their parties. EU is artificial state made only out of interest of political elites.
emptysongglass 1y ago
Danish journalists refuse to inform the public about this. The moderators of r/denmark are also currently blocking any submissions of this story to the subreddit.
- lII1lIlI11ll 1y ago
  > The moderators of r/denmark are also currently blocking any submissions of this story to the subreddit. Can you shed more light on situation in Denmark? Why is this happening?
  - emptysongglass 1y ago
    Danes are very proud of Denmark. It's a tiny country. There's a sense that we need to protect this tiny state from criticism because it's taken care of us. We've given the world Lego, Hans Christian Andersen, and we rank in the top two happiest countries in the world according to terrible measurements. So now we're the baddies, what do we do? We don't mention it. Ignorance is bliss.
    - lII1lIlI11ll 1y ago
      Okay, but what justification do they provide for such behavior?
      - emptysongglass 1y ago
        Various: rejection due to irrelevance and not provoking substantive debate.
nickslaughter02 1y ago
There has not been a single article about this in my country which is "for" the proposal despite me writing to all major news outlets. My only conclusion is that they are complicit.
munksbeer 1y ago
My response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44824742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44824742 In short: fault of the nation states, not the EU. Most EU people won't even be aware of this, the same in other countries around the world. We here care, most people don't. Sadly.

by efitz 1y ago

deafpolygon 1y ago

no, many of the citizens are just like any other country: some of them aren’t aware this is happening.

amarcheschi 1y ago

Most of the people I know - and I live in eu - are not knowledgeable about these topics. Furthermore, I've never heard about this in one of the main news channels, so I guess that most people don't even know about it

p0w3n3d 1y ago
There's this "I have nothing to hide" sentiment followed by blind trusts into officials, their intentions and their alleged protection. I.e. people are scares of terrorism and would like it to stop, so they hope the terrorists will be found by spying. At least in countries where the terrorism emerged recently, I'd say...
- potato3732842 1y ago
  Being "scared of terrorism" is perfectly legitimate even if not underpinned by statistics. The conversion from that to "so therefore the .gov ought to have powers that amount turnkey ability to violate human rights on a whim" is the problem. Any "well actually terrorists aren't that big a deal" discussion only serves to bog things down in the weeds and direct blame away from bad people who believe bad things. Replace terrorism with whatever the cause of the day is, drugs, satanic cults, tax evasion, etc, etc all you want, doesn't change anything. There are people who believe (though they'll rarely admit it when you lay it so bare) that you can take something that is flagrantly bad in its base or default form (like for example letting the government just read everyone's personal communication by default) and think that the fact that because it can be applied toward noble ends then it is a power the .gov ought to have access to by default.
- hintklb 1y ago
  You are right. As a European that lived in the US for a long time, a big difference is that there is also a lot of "European Conformism". You don't want to be seen as the weird one protesting things if nobody else does it. It's just easier to go with the flow and accept things.

johannes1234321 1y ago

A notable amount of people vote for parties suggesting such ideas. Demonstrations against are small. Only few people write to their government and their MEPs. This is probably sourced in not understanding it and not having enough information, but for as long as those three factors remain those are the results of democracy. (Democracy in the EU is complex topic in itself, as EU isn't a state, but a union of independent states where states are primarily represented by their government and the directly elected parliament plays a smaller role ... but given the little protest that's the smaller issue in this case)

hintklb 1y ago

EU citizens have way too much trust in their government and elected officials. A lot of people here just assume officials act in the interest of the population and most people don't really check or care to understand in detail those type of proposals. And unlike the US, very few people are going to push back based on "freedom" and "my rights" which is unfortunate in my opinion. This lack of pushback is why those types of proposal even come to be.

shafyy 1y ago
That's not true. The issue with EU is that it's not really representative, and this is being critised for a long time and I hope should change in the near future. The EU parliament (the only directly elected body of the EU) does currently not have enough power.
- hintklb 1y ago
  I'm a European citizen and I disagree. Compared to the US and a lot of places in the world, Europeans generally care less and have more trust in their government. There is a general sense that elected officials generally do what is best for the people. This leads to less scrutiny and push back in general. Definitely way less than in the US.
  - shafyy 1y ago
    This probably differs from country to country though. I have worked and lived in Switzerland (I know, not EU), Germany and US, and it does not feel like people don't care here in EU. In fact, in terms of people going out on the streets and demonstrating, it takes a lot less in countries like Germany and France to so compared to the US, in my experience. For example in Switzerland, there's the instrument of a "Volksinitiative". If you can collect 100k signatures, the government must hold a national election on this issue. And these are quite common and popular in Switzerland. In Germany, those unfortunately only exist on a state-level, not federal level, but are also common. So, in my experience, people are very much involved in government here. This might be different in different EU countries of course. Or maybe you have a vastly different bubble you live in than I do.

hedora 1y ago

The US government has almost completely diverged from the will of the people at this point. Most actions taken by this administration have > 65% disapproval ratings, and according to historical norms, if the size of current protests double, the people will overthrow the government. The last time I checked, the ongoing ICE raids against civilians were one of the more popular policies.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

rc_mob 1y ago

The USA elected a fascist and will be lucky to have fair voting ever again. So we're not really qualified to comment on any other country doing anything.

vixen99 1y ago
Maybe but I don't follow your 'So ...'. Just who decides the qualification? I suspect that most here will agree with you. However in the interests of encouraging a sober analysis: https://www.villagenews.com/story/2025/06/20/opinion/is-trump-a-fascist-a-closer-look-at-the-claims-and-the-counterpoints/79106.html https://www.villagenews.com/story/2025/06/20/opinion/is-trum...
OldfieldFund 1y ago
two things can be bad at the same time. also US is not the end all be all of things

wqaatwt 1y ago

Simple. The EU is hardly a democracy. It’s run almost entirely by appointed bureaucrats with delusions of grandeur. The European parliament is there but it’s very weak relative to actual national parliaments and most people unfortunately don’t really care that much about politics on the EU level..

izacus 1y ago
Please stop spreding this bullshit.
- wqaatwt 1y ago
  In what way exactly is it bullshit? For better or for worse the core institution or decision making processes were never designed to be democratic in any meaningful way.
  - izacus 1y ago
    Because it is bullshit without any basis and doesn't fit the reality which is modelled after most democracies on the planet. And no, I'm not going to play the game where you spew out whatever comes to mind and then I do work to debunk your claims. Do the legwork and prove your BS.
    - wqaatwt 1y ago
      > Do the legwork and prove your BS. Seems like a bizarre waste of time considering that that you already made up your mind to such an extent that you ate not even willing to explain what are you even trying to say. > and doesn't fit the reality which is modelled after most democracies on the planet Well yes, because the EU is rather unique compared to pretty much any post 1800s democracy.
- mirko22 1y ago
  How is this BS? Where is democracy in Von der Leyen making deal with USA for example, who voted for that? Most of the representatives there are local tokens that are there to pull EU money in the pockets of their parties. EU is artificial state made only out of interest of political elites.

emptysongglass 1y ago

Danish journalists refuse to inform the public about this. The moderators of r/denmark are also currently blocking any submissions of this story to the subreddit.

lII1lIlI11ll 1y ago
> The moderators of r/denmark are also currently blocking any submissions of this story to the subreddit. Can you shed more light on situation in Denmark? Why is this happening?
- emptysongglass 1y ago
  Danes are very proud of Denmark. It's a tiny country. There's a sense that we need to protect this tiny state from criticism because it's taken care of us. We've given the world Lego, Hans Christian Andersen, and we rank in the top two happiest countries in the world according to terrible measurements. So now we're the baddies, what do we do? We don't mention it. Ignorance is bliss.
  - lII1lIlI11ll 1y ago
    Okay, but what justification do they provide for such behavior?
    - emptysongglass 1y ago
      Various: rejection due to irrelevance and not provoking substantive debate.

nickslaughter02 1y ago

There has not been a single article about this in my country which is "for" the proposal despite me writing to all major news outlets. My only conclusion is that they are complicit.

munksbeer 1y ago

My response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44824742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44824742 In short: fault of the nation states, not the EU. Most EU people won't even be aware of this, the same in other countries around the world. We here care, most people don't. Sadly.