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this constant skepticism, where does it come from? Does Donald Trump have to come knock on your door personally and say "Hey I'm a fascist dictator!" for you

by zzzeek 1y ago

this constant skepticism, where does it come from? Does Donald Trump have to come knock on your door personally and say "Hey I'm a fascist dictator!" for you to believe your eyes what the presidency is so obviously doing day in and day out? Did you not notice when they illegally swept up 200 men who had tattoos, claimed they were gang members, and sent them off to a foreign prison in direct violation of court orders? That was like "ah woke judges, tattoos are clearly incriminating..." When they tackled and handcuffed a US SENATOR for interrupting a department head that HE IS IN CHARGE FOR OVERSIGHT OF? This is the part I'm trying to understand. What is the threshold for the skeptics?

Levitz 1y ago
[flagged]
gotoeleven 1y ago
[flagged]
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  From my reading, the administration claimed it was legal, a Federal judge stepped in and said it was not legal (the administration ignored), and finally the Supreme Court ruled due process was in fact denied: some deportees lacked criminal records and denied any meaningful judicial review or legal defense.
  - gotoeleven 1y ago
    Sorry what supreme court ruling are you referring to? There was one batch that was deported that included Garcia, and Garcia has since been returned to face federal human trafficking charges in the US. There was another batch of venezuelans that was going to be deported to el salvador but was stopped by a Supreme court ruling on April 19th. Perhaps you are referring to an appeals court ruling to that effect ("some deportees lacked criminal records and denied any meaningful judicial review or legal defense") ? This was overturned by the supreme court on the narrow grounds that the habeus petition should have been filed in TX, not judge shopping in DC.
    - JKCalhoun 1y ago
      I was referring to Noem v. Abrego Garcia [1] [1] https://www.usconstitution.net/supreme-court-orders-trump-admin-action/ https://www.usconstitution.net/supreme-court-orders-trump-ad...
- zzzeek 1y ago
  this is such utterly gross disinformation and should be reported
cameron_b 1y ago
What you see as skepticism, others see as Hanlon's Razor[0]. The prevailing wind of incompetence has masked a lot of what you might rightly consider malice, but in holding to a certain decorum or "wishing the best of people" there is a lot that could just be bungling. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, a lot of dots connect and do look like malice, but there's a vast amount of data that supports incompetence. [0] Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. ( elsewhere and generously, incompetence ) https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  Like the person you are responding too ... at what point does Hanlon's Razor become dull?
  - johnnyanmac 1y ago
    Note that malice and stupidity are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I say that dulled for me since the time the executive branch refused to appropriate congressional funds, lost several federal rulings on this and then continued to do so (the beef against Harvard and other high profile Universities is one of many recent examples). The "Big Beautiful bill" was the moment the razor completely broke in my mind.
- zzzeek 1y ago
  The motivation does not matter. It is the effect that matters, and also, it is well documented [1] that fascist dictatorships rely (again not in any pre-planned way, simply in how they emerge) on incompetence, sloppiness to achieve their end result - both to allow for wanton destruction, as well as to actually continue making people think none of this is intentional, as we are seeing here. That is, the skepticism we see here is the fascist playbook working as designed. Trump has no idea what a "fascist" is. He suffers from narcissism, and when you put narcissists in charge, you get fascist dictatorships as a result. That's why it's very easy to see that it's happening without having to psychoanalyze anyone. But because it happens in such a stupid way, people are constantly thrown off the trail as we see in this thread. You cannot credibly claim a US gov website just accidentally loses a specific chunk of the Constitution that specifically refers to all the parts of it that Trump is currently trying to break. It might be an accident that some overzealous kid was put in charge of the website, and it might be an accident that the removal happened in the first place, but the actual removal is clearly intentional on someone's part. If it stays up and does not get restored, that's also "incompetence, laziness" but it's also the effect of increased fascism. [1] https://www.newsweek.com/hitler-incompetent-lazy-nazi-government-clown-show-opinion-1408136 https://www.newsweek.com/hitler-incompetent-lazy-nazi-govern...

by zzzeek 1y ago

Levitz 1y ago

[flagged]

gotoeleven 1y ago

[flagged]

JKCalhoun 1y ago
From my reading, the administration claimed it was legal, a Federal judge stepped in and said it was not legal (the administration ignored), and finally the Supreme Court ruled due process was in fact denied: some deportees lacked criminal records and denied any meaningful judicial review or legal defense.
- gotoeleven 1y ago
  Sorry what supreme court ruling are you referring to? There was one batch that was deported that included Garcia, and Garcia has since been returned to face federal human trafficking charges in the US. There was another batch of venezuelans that was going to be deported to el salvador but was stopped by a Supreme court ruling on April 19th. Perhaps you are referring to an appeals court ruling to that effect ("some deportees lacked criminal records and denied any meaningful judicial review or legal defense") ? This was overturned by the supreme court on the narrow grounds that the habeus petition should have been filed in TX, not judge shopping in DC.
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    I was referring to Noem v. Abrego Garcia [1] [1] https://www.usconstitution.net/supreme-court-orders-trump-admin-action/ https://www.usconstitution.net/supreme-court-orders-trump-ad...
zzzeek 1y ago
this is such utterly gross disinformation and should be reported

cameron_b 1y ago

What you see as skepticism, others see as Hanlon's Razor[0]. The prevailing wind of incompetence has masked a lot of what you might rightly consider malice, but in holding to a certain decorum or "wishing the best of people" there is a lot that could just be bungling. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, a lot of dots connect and do look like malice, but there's a vast amount of data that supports incompetence. [0] Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. ( elsewhere and generously, incompetence ) https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

JKCalhoun 1y ago
Like the person you are responding too ... at what point does Hanlon's Razor become dull?
- johnnyanmac 1y ago
  Note that malice and stupidity are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I say that dulled for me since the time the executive branch refused to appropriate congressional funds, lost several federal rulings on this and then continued to do so (the beef against Harvard and other high profile Universities is one of many recent examples). The "Big Beautiful bill" was the moment the razor completely broke in my mind.
zzzeek 1y ago
The motivation does not matter. It is the effect that matters, and also, it is well documented [1] that fascist dictatorships rely (again not in any pre-planned way, simply in how they emerge) on incompetence, sloppiness to achieve their end result - both to allow for wanton destruction, as well as to actually continue making people think none of this is intentional, as we are seeing here. That is, the skepticism we see here is the fascist playbook working as designed. Trump has no idea what a "fascist" is. He suffers from narcissism, and when you put narcissists in charge, you get fascist dictatorships as a result. That's why it's very easy to see that it's happening without having to psychoanalyze anyone. But because it happens in such a stupid way, people are constantly thrown off the trail as we see in this thread. You cannot credibly claim a US gov website just accidentally loses a specific chunk of the Constitution that specifically refers to all the parts of it that Trump is currently trying to break. It might be an accident that some overzealous kid was put in charge of the website, and it might be an accident that the removal happened in the first place, but the actual removal is clearly intentional on someone's part. If it stays up and does not get restored, that's also "incompetence, laziness" but it's also the effect of increased fascism. [1] https://www.newsweek.com/hitler-incompetent-lazy-nazi-government-clown-show-opinion-1408136 https://www.newsweek.com/hitler-incompetent-lazy-nazi-govern...