7 ms·

This, like much of the pharmaceutical approach to well-being, is treating symptoms and not the problem. Metabolic dysfunction? Fix the metabolism. Poor unders

• dan-robertson 1y ago
  Is it possible to avoid having the same discussion every time anything related to Ozempic comes up?
  • sjw987 1y ago
    It's an important discussion. We should all be aiming to do better. Instead we're just lowering the standards for everything. Only the morbidly obese should be using these drugs to get down to a healthy enough (overweight) level to lose the rest with sensible discipline, healthy/less eating (mostly this), and exercise (less this, but important for the mind, strength and cardio). Discipline and basic understanding of nutrition and fitness are important life skills. At some point everybody should be developing them. If people can't be arsed doing that and we give easy shortcuts for everything in life, what's the point in being alive? This argument comes up time and time again because it's common sense, yet people always seem to want to ignore it because deep down they are being lazy and undisciplined.
    • guerrilla 1y ago
      Nah man. I'm overweight and despite trying everything I possibly can for most of my adult life, I still can't win. I do everything you're supposed to do but it's just not possible to maintain long-term. It's a constant struggle. You don't have discipline. It's just easier for you. That's all. I still won't use this drug but don't try to tell me I failed because of a lack of effort, understanding, exercise, "discipline", etc.
      • lo_zamoyski 1y ago
        What is the source of difficulty in your case? Are you comparing your situation to that of someone with a predisposition for alcoholism?
        • guerrilla 1y ago
          No, it's far more difficult than quitting addictive drugs. I've done that and succeded several times over.
          • lo_zamoyski 1y ago
            So you accept it as a behavioral problem, yes? I.e., an inability to refrain from overeating? Any speculation about why you cannot deny yourself?
            • guerrilla 1y ago
              No, it's not a "behavioral problem." Your phrasing is disgusting. The research is perfectly clear on why it's extrenely difficult to lose weight. There's no need for speculation.
              • lo_zamoyski 1y ago
                So, you reject thermodynamics? Phrases like "the research" is a convenient way to insinuate and bluff. Obesity is absolutely a behavioral problem.
                • guerrilla 1y ago
                  > So, you reject thermodynamics? No. > Obesity is absolutely a behavioral problem. Nope.
            • cthalupa 1y ago
              For more than half of my life, I was quite skinny. I was not exhibiting any particularly strong willpower or self control. I never had to put forth any effort in not being fat. It was not a struggle, it was not a challenge, and it was not because I lacked a behavioral problem. Well into my 20s I had zero issue controlling my weight - though saying controlling my weight here is kind of a misnomer, since I put no thought or effort into it. If anything, when I was trying to get into powerlifting, I struggled to eat enough - I constantly felt sick trying to reach my calorie and protein targets. Then circumstances changed. I swapped to an overnight job for more money. I started cooking less because of the hours, and eating more fast food. I stopped lifting weights because powerlifting was less interesting to me. My weight crept up little by little for years and years until I was overweight. And I realized my relationship with food had changed - ignoring physical hunger was still easy, but I was still constantly thinking about food. Slightly bored? Let's eat something. Work stressing me out? Grab some more food. Have a few minutes respite from everything? Eating sounds good. Eventually I was past overweight and into obese. I managed to lose 30lb or so a few times, close to 50lb once. I could maintain it for a bit. But I was having to expend huge amounts of mental energy to do it - something I had never had to do before I had gotten fat in the first place. The second I had to prioritize other things in my life, for whatever reason, I no longer had the energy to spend so much time trying to push down all of the noise in my mind about food. vs. just a decade prior, never really thinking about food at all. Is it possible for anyone to lose weight? Sure. Bodies aren't magic. Energy has to come from somewhere, and lower your calories a sufficient amount and you will lose weight. But for many people the amount of willpower and effort required is just massively different. The years of skinny me would not have lasted nearly as long as they did if I had the same level of food noise then that I do now.
    • ben_w 1y ago
      > If people can't be arsed doing that and we give easy shortcuts for everything in life, what's the point in being alive? Embrace the shortcuts. Life's too short not to. What's that Plato quote about writing? If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls. They will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only the semblance of wisdom, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much while for the most part they know nothing. And yet, here were are, conversing at all only because of writing.
      • sjw987 1y ago
        There's a time and place for shortcuts. Health and fitness shortcuts hold more to lose than they do to gain. Sometimes the long way is better long term. A healthy attitude towards eating and fitness can, and usually does, elevate your life experience many times over. Taking a shortcut in these erases any personal development and learning experience you could get from finding a sport you love, changing your views on food. A diatribe about Plato doesn't make the universal argument for taking shortcuts. Do you want the people building your home and infrastructure making shortcuts? Do you want doctors in training to shortcut their studies? Why work out and train longer when you can just take anabolic steroids? Why read (or watch films) if you can just skim the summaries on Wikipedia?
        • ben_w 1y ago
          > Health and fitness shortcuts hold more to lose than they do to gain. The entire history of medicine and sports science disagrees with you about that. It's all about knowing what the direct path to the goal is and not meandering around the metaphorical scenic route to those goals. > Taking a shortcut in these erases any personal development and learning experience you could get from finding a sport you love Or enable sports that were otherwise unobtainable. > changing your views on food. More likely that these drugs would do that. UK celebrity chef Jamie Oliver tried to promote healthy eating in schools by showing school kids how chicken nuggets were made. The kids were disgusted… and yet still wanted to eat them, much to Jamie Oliver's surprise. > Do you want the people building your home and infrastructure making shortcuts? Given "shortcuts" in this case means "technology", here's what building a home without "shortcuts" looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eesj3pJF3lA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eesj3pJF3lA > Do you want doctors in training to shortcut their studies? And in this case, "shortcuts" means "reads Gray's Anatomy rather than figuring out anatomy solely from first principles by dissection of corpses".
  • briangriffinfan 1y ago
    My manfriend is on ozempic and he always complains about how it makes him alternate between constipation and diahrrea. So it was funny to me to see it become a meme.
• soulofmischief 1y ago
  Wow, I didn't realize the solution to all my problems is just to fix them. The answer was staring me right in the face the entire time. While I'm at it, I should also not take ADHD medication and instead just fix my mutated dopamine circuitry.
  • a5c11 1y ago
    You don't quite understand the meaning of "symptom" and "illness", do you? Obesity - symptom. Usually the illness is a bad diet, lack of movement, or very rarely some serious health condition. Instead of targeting obesity, fix your habits or see a doctor to see why your body accumulates excessive amounts of fat. Dopamine issues, lack of concentration, etc. - symptoms. The illness is ADHD. By taking medicines you are targeting illness, which is correct. Targeting symptoms would be me standing behind you with a metal pipe and hitting you every time you lose focus.
    • shlant 1y ago
      wow people can just not be obese if they fix their habits! what a revelation! Better go tell all the obese people that, they surely have no idea.
      • ap99 1y ago
        Two things get in most people's way: nutritional knowledge and emotional control. Health and age is a factor for some ofc but can you honestly say that people know the nutritional value of what they're eating and also can emotionally control when they eat?
        • soulofmischief 1y ago
          This perspective doesn't properly take into account the complex metabolism of the human body, and the psychological complexity of the brain. The apparent phenomenon of "free will" emerges from a chaotic, dynamic system, but you must understand the underlying variables if you want to effectively manipulate the result of their interactions.
• simiones 1y ago
  > Metabolic dysfunction? Fix the metabolism. What specific diagnosis is a "metabolic dysfunction", and how is it fixable?
• niklasbuschmann 1y ago
  You really believe that skinny people are just more disciplined than obese? I would highly doubt that most skinny people actively try to keep their weight down, it‘s just how they are.
• wpm 1y ago
  Wow gosh you’re just so smart, no one thought of or tried anything like that before!
• rpunkfu 1y ago
  I believe that while your points are valid, they play a much more important role than merely serving as a tool for someone who doesn't want to delve deeper into the problem. I don't think being on Ozempic for an extended period is a good idea. This isn't because it's unhealthy, but because people often become leaner while still consuming unhealthy food. The difference is that they now exclusively eatthat unhealthy food, in good case bit less of it (based on my observations of people I know who are using it). However, there is a significant benefit to Ozempic. For individuals struggling with self-control and obesity, it can help them reach a better starting point quickly. When someone is obese, every day matters. The sooner they lose weight, the more likely they are to feel motivated to take the next steps: moving more, exercising, and avoiding unhealthy food, as they won't want to waste the hard work they put into their workouts.
  • ap99 1y ago
    The problem I have with ozempic is that it's a bandaid on a deep wound. If I can take ozempic, eat poorly (just less volume), and still lose weight then my and most people's lazy brain will say keep doing what you're doing. When people get off ozempic they go back to the larger volume eating, and gain weight back which is mostly fat. It's the epitome of a pharma solution: quick results, don't address underlying issues, hook the customer for life.