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You make a good and necessary point: >...to disregard the extreme differences between the social contract in a democratic state and an authoritarian one is ins
by palmfacehn 1y ago
You make a good and necessary point:
>...to disregard the extreme differences between the social contract in a democratic state and an authoritarian one is insane...
> I don't care if a crazy person was supposedly "impressed" at what Roosevelt was doing, because they were attempting to reframe it in terms of their propaganda
Praise is often used in a diplomatic context as well. Just because bad actors praised FDR, it doesn't necessarily follow that FDR is equally odious.
That said, at the time the US had shifted from the high growth, individualistic era of the Gilded Age, into the collectivism of the Progressive Era. When people talk about fascism here it is often in the accusatory, partisan context.
If you examine collectivist projects, you will find that they almost always require an authoritarian backstop to enforce the agenda. There are direct parallels between the Corporatist economic model and many of the progressive era reforms. Instead of using the word 'Fascism' as a partisan cudgel, it may be more informative to examine the parallels. Specifically here in economic doctrine.
>Is it so bad for the government to lay the foundations for the economic security of its people? Or at least attempt to?
In my view, yes absolutely. While it maybe fair to presume good intent, we could also judge the programs on their outcomes. Cynics typically look towards the special interests which benefit from the state's largess and dismiss the good intentions as a mere marketing ploy. Is self-professed altruism enough?
Federal Reserve (a public private partnership, see Corporatism) Chairman Ben Bernanke famously observed, "You're right, we caused the Great Depression. We're sorry. But thanks to you we'll never do it again." The comment was directed towards Milton Freedman, at his 90th birthday party. This was before Helicopter Ben presided over the 2008 financial crisis.
As for FDR, his new deal programs are widely regarded as deepening and prolonging the Great Depression.
So from an empirical perspective, yes these were specifically bad attempts.
However, I'm going a bit long here, and the main topic of the discussion is Democracy. Aside from empirical evaluations we can also reason about the premises of the democratic process in relation to FDR's programs. One of the key objections to Democracy as an ultimate good, is that the sum of the democratic process, Democracy the ideal, becomes greater than the whole of the participants. Axiomatically, if no single individual has the power to coerce another into an internment camp or force him to sell his labor at a fixed rate; Then by what magical incantation, did the votes of these individuals empower FDR to intern Japanese Americans or enact price controls?
I agree that there is an order of magnitude of difference between history's worst and FDR. However, many of the rationales and some of the methods are similar. If we are truly opposed to those outcomes or ideals, then we should call out the similarities.
- guelo 1y ago> As for FDR, his new deal programs are widely regarded as deepening and prolonging the Great Depression. That is absolutely not true. That idea is not widely accepted among mainstream historians and economists. The generally accepted lesson from the depression is that the fed policy was wrong. That theory has been mostly successfully deployed to subsequent recessions.