4 ms·

Schools next to a stroad really aren't that unheard of in the United States.

by t-writescode 1y ago

bravesoul2 1y ago
Yes so slow em down.
- t-writescode 1y ago
  The previous context was, "Why on earth would there be a 40mph road next to a school" The surrounding context was a comment about how the flashing light WASN'T on and how the speed limit was, per the sign, only enforced when the flashing light is on. So, "why would it be 40mph?" because it's a stroad - a main thoroughfare through a town that's like maybe 5 or more lanes wide (including both directions and the 'turning lane'. There's value in asking the question why there's such a wild variance in speeds between "normal" speed and "school open/close" hours, and that's a useful question to ask and likely comes down to the car-centric politics that filled the United States for well over 50 years, and will take a very long time (and a lot of political clout) to fix. Depending on the size of the town, that may also, literally, be "the only road" that makes sense for that school to be on, so you have conflicting interests of a major, high-speed arterial road as well as the safety of children during particular hours. And to add *even more* to that, if you're going 40 and expect the speed limit to be 40 and everyone around you also expects the speed limit to be 40 (because that's the posted speed limit, and the sign isn't flashing), then you going 20 creates a 20mph differential between you and the rest of the traffic around you and now you're *going* to cause an accident.
- hedora 1y ago
  Have you seen modern US schools? They're basically setup like prison yards because of all the school shootings. There's no way the kids are going to run into the street without first going through a parking lot (and, often, a line of bollards). On the bright side, there's zero reason to slow cars down when kids aren't being actively picked up or dropped off. (Not that there was a reason to slow the cars down during off hours in the past, since the law has always been "When children are present" in places I've lived, which is good enough.)
  - bravesoul2 1y ago
    I am haven't seen a US school. What about walking? I'm guessing most people use the school bus or get driven then?
    - userbinator 1y ago
      It varies greatly by area, but generally most too young to drive get bused or driven, and those old enough drive themselves.
    - hansvm 1y ago
      Across the US, only 70% of students live within 3 miles of their school, and only 20% of students are within 1 mile. Toss in weather, carrying supplies for after-school activities, tight schedules (e.g., going from some before-school activity to the actual school building), a general fear of kidnapping, a car-centric culture, and the fact that buses are cheap and school dropoff is often easy to squeeze into a parent's schedule, and you'll find that various forms of driving are extremely common.
    - Spooky23 1y ago
      One suburban town near me forbids approach on foot or bike. I’ve heard of places where CPS was called about kids walking to school.
      - bravesoul2 1y ago
        Wow what a dystopia
    - laurencerowe 1y ago
      It only works if you are lucky enough to live the side of the school with the pedestrian entrance. A colleague lived near the side with car entrance so walking their kids to school required walking the extra 1/2 mile around the grounds as they weren’t allowed int he car entrance.
  - t-writescode 1y ago
    To be fair, US schools have been very 'shaped like a castle with walls' for longer than school shootings. When I was in school, there was no way to get to the road, outside of entering and exiting the whole compound.
- xboxnolifes 1y ago
  You would still be suddenly dropping a 40mph road to 20mph for a short stretch. These schools are frequently built on major roads.
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    Are you suggesting this is bad?
    - xboxnolifes 1y ago
      I am suggesting that having a major road that suddenly drops to half speed, without significant signage, then speeds back up is bad, yes. That's just a form of speed trap.
      - CalRobert 1y ago
        Perhaps the speed limit for the whole street (or road, if it isn’t a street) should be 20 mph then? To elaborate - ideally there would be a street redesign in that area so 20 mph felt like the right speed. Narrowing, more visual obstructions, etc.
        xboxnolifes 1y ago
        I'm aware of how natural speed limits work. And my point is these are frequently major roads that are miles long, not residential streets. Major arterial roads, sometimes state highways.
        CalRobert 1y ago
        How do you propose ensuring safety for kids walking and biking to school in these places?
        xboxnolifes 1y ago
        In the kinds of places I am thinking about, step one is choosing not to build directly on a major road, miles away from residences. Which is not always realistic, when residences are miles apart from one another. The decision for safety needed to be made about a dozen decisions ago in those situations. What is left is busing kids home.

Schools next to a stroad really aren't that unheard of in the United States.

bravesoul2 1y ago

Yes so slow em down.

t-writescode 1y ago
The previous context was, "Why on earth would there be a 40mph road next to a school" The surrounding context was a comment about how the flashing light WASN'T on and how the speed limit was, per the sign, only enforced when the flashing light is on. So, "why would it be 40mph?" because it's a stroad - a main thoroughfare through a town that's like maybe 5 or more lanes wide (including both directions and the 'turning lane'. There's value in asking the question why there's such a wild variance in speeds between "normal" speed and "school open/close" hours, and that's a useful question to ask and likely comes down to the car-centric politics that filled the United States for well over 50 years, and will take a very long time (and a lot of political clout) to fix. Depending on the size of the town, that may also, literally, be "the only road" that makes sense for that school to be on, so you have conflicting interests of a major, high-speed arterial road as well as the safety of children during particular hours. And to add *even more* to that, if you're going 40 and expect the speed limit to be 40 and everyone around you also expects the speed limit to be 40 (because that's the posted speed limit, and the sign isn't flashing), then you going 20 creates a 20mph differential between you and the rest of the traffic around you and now you're *going* to cause an accident.
hedora 1y ago
Have you seen modern US schools? They're basically setup like prison yards because of all the school shootings. There's no way the kids are going to run into the street without first going through a parking lot (and, often, a line of bollards). On the bright side, there's zero reason to slow cars down when kids aren't being actively picked up or dropped off. (Not that there was a reason to slow the cars down during off hours in the past, since the law has always been "When children are present" in places I've lived, which is good enough.)
- bravesoul2 1y ago
  I am haven't seen a US school. What about walking? I'm guessing most people use the school bus or get driven then?
  - userbinator 1y ago
    It varies greatly by area, but generally most too young to drive get bused or driven, and those old enough drive themselves.
  - hansvm 1y ago
    Across the US, only 70% of students live within 3 miles of their school, and only 20% of students are within 1 mile. Toss in weather, carrying supplies for after-school activities, tight schedules (e.g., going from some before-school activity to the actual school building), a general fear of kidnapping, a car-centric culture, and the fact that buses are cheap and school dropoff is often easy to squeeze into a parent's schedule, and you'll find that various forms of driving are extremely common.
  - Spooky23 1y ago
    One suburban town near me forbids approach on foot or bike. I’ve heard of places where CPS was called about kids walking to school.
    - bravesoul2 1y ago
      Wow what a dystopia
  - laurencerowe 1y ago
    It only works if you are lucky enough to live the side of the school with the pedestrian entrance. A colleague lived near the side with car entrance so walking their kids to school required walking the extra 1/2 mile around the grounds as they weren’t allowed int he car entrance.
- t-writescode 1y ago
  To be fair, US schools have been very 'shaped like a castle with walls' for longer than school shootings. When I was in school, there was no way to get to the road, outside of entering and exiting the whole compound.
xboxnolifes 1y ago
You would still be suddenly dropping a 40mph road to 20mph for a short stretch. These schools are frequently built on major roads.
- CalRobert 1y ago
  Are you suggesting this is bad?
  - xboxnolifes 1y ago
    I am suggesting that having a major road that suddenly drops to half speed, without significant signage, then speeds back up is bad, yes. That's just a form of speed trap.
    - CalRobert 1y ago
      Perhaps the speed limit for the whole street (or road, if it isn’t a street) should be 20 mph then? To elaborate - ideally there would be a street redesign in that area so 20 mph felt like the right speed. Narrowing, more visual obstructions, etc.
      - xboxnolifes 1y ago
        I'm aware of how natural speed limits work. And my point is these are frequently major roads that are miles long, not residential streets. Major arterial roads, sometimes state highways.
        CalRobert 1y ago
        How do you propose ensuring safety for kids walking and biking to school in these places?
        xboxnolifes 1y ago
        In the kinds of places I am thinking about, step one is choosing not to build directly on a major road, miles away from residences. Which is not always realistic, when residences are miles apart from one another. The decision for safety needed to be made about a dozen decisions ago in those situations. What is left is busing kids home.