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It’s not “a different point of view” to think that tariffs get paid by the other country. It’s not “a different point of view” to loathe Obamacare and like the

It’s not “a different point of view” to think that tariffs get paid by the other country. It’s not “a different point of view” to loathe Obamacare and like the ACA. It’s just ignorance. When the information is easily available, it’s willful ignorance. When they won’t obtain the information and they still hold strong opinions and vote accordingly, it’s at best stupidity.

dylan604 1y ago
How is it not a different point of view to think that healthcare should be tied to one's employment as opposed to all people should have access to affordable healthcare? We can discuss if Obamacare achieved what it wanted to do as I believe it was not very successful, but it at its core is a different view point. Yes, people believing other countries pay the tariffs are clearly not understanding of how tariffs work. But then you went made some clearly erroneous comment that ruined everything else just to get back to stupidity. Which by your standards means you must be stupid too for continuing to put forth a clearly wrong point.
- wat10000 1y ago
  That’s not what I was saying. Obamacare and the ACA are the same thing. The ACA is the official name and Obamacare is an attempt at a derogatory nickname which became common. Hating one and liking the other is an inherently contradictory position. And yet it’s one a lot of people hold. That’s not a different point of view, that’s not having even the most basic understanding of the thing you have an opinion about.
  - presentation 1y ago
    That’s democracy though, everyone gets a vote, even if you’re a doofus.
    - mikepurvis 1y ago
      Right, but it puts rational people who seek to govern in a very uncomfortable position when they're up against an adversary who is happy to seize power at all costs, including weaponizing ignorance, ideology, polarization, conspiracy theories, and a complicit media apparatus, and then engages in blatantly un-democratic tactics like gerrymandering and the filibuster, and all the rest of it. Basically when all or most of the facts are on your side, how do you balance the need to indulge stupid talking points and perspectives so that you can "reach" people, while also not inadvertently conceding ground in an attempt to meet a person where they are?
      - presentation 1y ago
        IMO it’s an incentive problem - it takes effort to be knowledgeable but the practical benefits are next to nothing. But being in a group of ignorant people is actually probably pretty fun, not to mention the dopamine hit of outrage. Ideally being informed would be both easier than it is today (less misleading crap, more trustworthy structure to think about what issues are relevant) while also being more rewarded somehow.
    - wat10000 1y ago
      Of course. I’m not saying they shouldn’t have a vote. I’m just saying they are in fact doofuses.
- djfobbz 1y ago
  I disagree with your blanket assumption that consumers always pay for tariffs. In my experience working for a major garment importer, we kept retail prices the same even after tariffs were added. Why? Because competition from local brands forced us to absorb the cost ourselves. Sure, that's not how every industry works, but saying consumers always pay is an oversimplification. It really depends on the industry, pricing power, and competitive pressure.
  - wat10000 1y ago
    Whether tariffs are paid by the consumer is a bit pointless. The incontrovertible fact is that tariffs are paid by someone in the importing country, whether the importing business or their customer or a middleman or some combination. These dingbats are out there thinking that these tariffs will be paid by China or Canada or whatever.
    - geysersam 1y ago
      But that's not true, why would it be? Tariffs are paid by someone in the supply chain. It's not obvious that the payer is in the importing country.
      - wat10000 1y ago
        They are paid by the importer. It’s possible those costs will be passed along with higher prices, but you can’t really pass costs back.
        robertlagrant 1y ago
        Of course you can. Competition means exporters can lower their prices to help mitigate the tariffs in order to beat their competitors.
        wat10000 1y ago
        They can do that without tariffs too.
- motorest 1y ago
  > How is it not a different point of view to think that healthcare should be tied to one's employment as opposed to all people should have access to affordable healthcare? Please explain how members of a low-income household would rationally and knowingly advocate to eliminate the only access to healthcare they can afford. Then, if you are able to present a coherent argument, try to explain that in a stupidity vs diverse point of view, this stance is indeed not founded on stupidity.
- myvoiceismypass 1y ago
  OP said: > loathe Obamacare and like the ACA they were not arguing for or against obamacare, they were pointing out the laziness of people that don't realize that Obamacare _is_ the ACA, but somehow hate the former and love the latter.

dylan604 1y ago

How is it not a different point of view to think that healthcare should be tied to one's employment as opposed to all people should have access to affordable healthcare? We can discuss if Obamacare achieved what it wanted to do as I believe it was not very successful, but it at its core is a different view point. Yes, people believing other countries pay the tariffs are clearly not understanding of how tariffs work. But then you went made some clearly erroneous comment that ruined everything else just to get back to stupidity. Which by your standards means you must be stupid too for continuing to put forth a clearly wrong point.

wat10000 1y ago
That’s not what I was saying. Obamacare and the ACA are the same thing. The ACA is the official name and Obamacare is an attempt at a derogatory nickname which became common. Hating one and liking the other is an inherently contradictory position. And yet it’s one a lot of people hold. That’s not a different point of view, that’s not having even the most basic understanding of the thing you have an opinion about.
- presentation 1y ago
  That’s democracy though, everyone gets a vote, even if you’re a doofus.
  - mikepurvis 1y ago
    Right, but it puts rational people who seek to govern in a very uncomfortable position when they're up against an adversary who is happy to seize power at all costs, including weaponizing ignorance, ideology, polarization, conspiracy theories, and a complicit media apparatus, and then engages in blatantly un-democratic tactics like gerrymandering and the filibuster, and all the rest of it. Basically when all or most of the facts are on your side, how do you balance the need to indulge stupid talking points and perspectives so that you can "reach" people, while also not inadvertently conceding ground in an attempt to meet a person where they are?
    - presentation 1y ago
      IMO it’s an incentive problem - it takes effort to be knowledgeable but the practical benefits are next to nothing. But being in a group of ignorant people is actually probably pretty fun, not to mention the dopamine hit of outrage. Ideally being informed would be both easier than it is today (less misleading crap, more trustworthy structure to think about what issues are relevant) while also being more rewarded somehow.
  - wat10000 1y ago
    Of course. I’m not saying they shouldn’t have a vote. I’m just saying they are in fact doofuses.
djfobbz 1y ago
I disagree with your blanket assumption that consumers always pay for tariffs. In my experience working for a major garment importer, we kept retail prices the same even after tariffs were added. Why? Because competition from local brands forced us to absorb the cost ourselves. Sure, that's not how every industry works, but saying consumers always pay is an oversimplification. It really depends on the industry, pricing power, and competitive pressure.
- wat10000 1y ago
  Whether tariffs are paid by the consumer is a bit pointless. The incontrovertible fact is that tariffs are paid by someone in the importing country, whether the importing business or their customer or a middleman or some combination. These dingbats are out there thinking that these tariffs will be paid by China or Canada or whatever.
  - geysersam 1y ago
    But that's not true, why would it be? Tariffs are paid by someone in the supply chain. It's not obvious that the payer is in the importing country.
    - wat10000 1y ago
      They are paid by the importer. It’s possible those costs will be passed along with higher prices, but you can’t really pass costs back.
      - robertlagrant 1y ago
        Of course you can. Competition means exporters can lower their prices to help mitigate the tariffs in order to beat their competitors.
        wat10000 1y ago
        They can do that without tariffs too.
motorest 1y ago
> How is it not a different point of view to think that healthcare should be tied to one's employment as opposed to all people should have access to affordable healthcare? Please explain how members of a low-income household would rationally and knowingly advocate to eliminate the only access to healthcare they can afford. Then, if you are able to present a coherent argument, try to explain that in a stupidity vs diverse point of view, this stance is indeed not founded on stupidity.
myvoiceismypass 1y ago
OP said: > loathe Obamacare and like the ACA they were not arguing for or against obamacare, they were pointing out the laziness of people that don't realize that Obamacare _is_ the ACA, but somehow hate the former and love the latter.