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You think ending qualified immunity would attract intelligent people?

altruios 1y ago
Yes. In the same way doctors are intelligent without qualified immunity. If doctors gain qualified immunity: I would expect the quality of doctors to go down. Qualified immunity only attracts bullies, and opportunists. Qualified immunity rewards bad behavior, it does nothing to promote good behavior.
- mathiaspoint 1y ago
  I think most intelligent people are going to model out the expected outcome of their career choices at least intuitively. If becoming a cop more likely leads to ruin it will be less attractive to the kinds of people who think ahead.
  - altruios 1y ago
    a good cop would not be “ruined” by being held accountable to their actions. Do not excuse evil. > I think most intelligent people are going to model out the expected outcome of their career choices at least intuitively And yet we have doctors who face exactly the same risks as is being proposed. Your argument is flawed and 1-dimensional. People choose their careers on many factors. If we make it so good cops are rewarded (by having cheaper insurance), we have more good cops. That’s a win. Qualified immunity must go.
    - s1artibartfast 1y ago
      Qualified immunity needs a new standard, but it is necessary. It makes no sense to hold police personally liable for doing exactly what they are trained and instructed to do. We don't hold individual construction workers personally liable if they are following a certified blueprint and the building code.
      - altruios 1y ago
        You are characterizing police brutality - what we want to curb - as something they are trained to do… this is disingenuous at best. If a police officer kills someone innocent, or enters the wrong house and shoots someone… they absolutely should be held criminally accountable: as they have committed a crime. Being a police officer shouldn’t excuse you from doing crime, come on. Again: higher standards. And you should be asking yourself why you are okay with lower standards than “police should at least not be shooting innocent people in their sleep after entering the wrong house” We really need better training for police: hopefully we at least agree on that…
        s1artibartfast 1y ago
        I think you are confused as to what qualified immunity is, and the different possible standards. There is a lot more than police brutality, and brutality isnt protected.
        mathiaspoint 1y ago
        If you had the option of a position with feduciary duty and lower pay would you pick it? Probably not. That's essentially what you're arguing for.
        altruios 1y ago
        Who said anything about lower pay? Higher education would increase their market value. Private insurance would also make their wages higher since the city wouldn't have to have a slush fund to payout for their mistakes. Higher standards also mean higher pay.
      - fzeroracer 1y ago
        > Qualified immunity needs a new standard, but it is necessary. No, it's not. This isn't an argument. Other countries do not have qualified immunity doctrine and there is no shortage of police. The police should be held to a higher standard to everyone else, which is why comparing a construction worker to a police officer is a bad one.

Yes. In the same way doctors are intelligent without qualified immunity. If doctors gain qualified immunity: I would expect the quality of doctors to go down. Qualified immunity only attracts bullies, and opportunists. Qualified immunity rewards bad behavior, it does nothing to promote good behavior.

mathiaspoint 1y ago
I think most intelligent people are going to model out the expected outcome of their career choices at least intuitively. If becoming a cop more likely leads to ruin it will be less attractive to the kinds of people who think ahead.
- altruios 1y ago
  a good cop would not be “ruined” by being held accountable to their actions. Do not excuse evil. > I think most intelligent people are going to model out the expected outcome of their career choices at least intuitively And yet we have doctors who face exactly the same risks as is being proposed. Your argument is flawed and 1-dimensional. People choose their careers on many factors. If we make it so good cops are rewarded (by having cheaper insurance), we have more good cops. That’s a win. Qualified immunity must go.
  - s1artibartfast 1y ago
    Qualified immunity needs a new standard, but it is necessary. It makes no sense to hold police personally liable for doing exactly what they are trained and instructed to do. We don't hold individual construction workers personally liable if they are following a certified blueprint and the building code.
    - altruios 1y ago
      You are characterizing police brutality - what we want to curb - as something they are trained to do… this is disingenuous at best. If a police officer kills someone innocent, or enters the wrong house and shoots someone… they absolutely should be held criminally accountable: as they have committed a crime. Being a police officer shouldn’t excuse you from doing crime, come on. Again: higher standards. And you should be asking yourself why you are okay with lower standards than “police should at least not be shooting innocent people in their sleep after entering the wrong house” We really need better training for police: hopefully we at least agree on that…
      - s1artibartfast 1y ago
        I think you are confused as to what qualified immunity is, and the different possible standards. There is a lot more than police brutality, and brutality isnt protected.
      - mathiaspoint 1y ago
        If you had the option of a position with feduciary duty and lower pay would you pick it? Probably not. That's essentially what you're arguing for.
        altruios 1y ago
        Who said anything about lower pay? Higher education would increase their market value. Private insurance would also make their wages higher since the city wouldn't have to have a slush fund to payout for their mistakes. Higher standards also mean higher pay.
    - fzeroracer 1y ago
      > Qualified immunity needs a new standard, but it is necessary. No, it's not. This isn't an argument. Other countries do not have qualified immunity doctrine and there is no shortage of police. The police should be held to a higher standard to everyone else, which is why comparing a construction worker to a police officer is a bad one.