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I’m convinced that this is all what it looks like to live through the end of an empire (or whatever term you’d like). I think our lives are short enough that i

I’m convinced that this is all what it looks like to live through the end of an empire (or whatever term you’d like). I think our lives are short enough that it can be easy to perceive something like America as “always was, always will be” and the rest is just trivia you learn in history class.

exasperaited 1y ago
> I’m convinced that this is all what it looks like to live through the end of an empire (or whatever term you’d like). It feels to me like it's more like the beginning of an empire, in the sense of existing under an emperor. > I think our lives are short enough that it can be easy to perceive something like America as “always was, always will be” and the rest is just trivia you learn in history class. I think it very interesting that one of the things the USA is going to have to grapple with, in the middle of the most contentious presidency in its history, is the semiquincentennial of independence itself. The bicentennial of independence in 1976 was I think largely an uncontentious thing even though the Vietnam conflict had ended only a couple of years beforehand and the presidency was in the hands of a guy who had taken over the job from, and pardoned, a crook who was forced to resign. Internationally people were pretty kind and generous to the USA. I don't think anyone, anywhere on the planet, is prepared diplomatically for how it will play out this time. Next year is going to be a heck of a year.
- nosignono 1y ago
  The US president has been an emperor in all but title for generations at least.
  - exasperaited 1y ago
    I think this will have been news to Biden and especially to Obama, who didn't even get the deference about the new suit.
    - nosignono 1y ago
      If you think Obama wasn't overseeing an empire, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should ask the people of Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya about the US drone strikes there.
      - exasperaited 1y ago
        Oh, that isn't what I mean, and I am willing to accept your view. (And I was joking a bit anyway) What I mean about the beginning of an empire is, as I said -- the beginning of a true individual, not simply unitary, emperor. That the executive is transforming into l'état, c'est moi, which no US president has had the luxury of ever before, because Congress wouldn't ever have handed over the influence and authority they had.
antonvs 1y ago
This could still be turned around, with some luck and effort. But it won't happen if the voters don't get out of frog-being-slowly-boiled mode, clinging to normalcy bias. So in the end your assessment is probably correct. It's probably going to be a long, slow decline though.
nosignono 1y ago
The collapse of an empire is correct. USA is absolutely an empire, and we're clearly seeing unprecedented contractions and spasms of our government as it ineffectually attempts to govern while doing everything it can to foment civil agitation.
IAmGraydon 1y ago
You wouldn’t have said that before Trump took office, so it seems to me that it’s one idiot causing all of the problems and not the kind of slow decline that happens over a long time span when an empire falls. What Trump is, is not compatible with who we are as a country and I’m confident he is going to bring about his own undoing when the economy really starts falling apart.
- Waterluvian 1y ago
  Actually I would argue that America has been slowly in decline for a long time now. And the inflection point is when there’s critical mass of that rot that someone like Trump can be elected. How embarrassing for all Americans that it got this bad, but even worse: it being this bad will greatly speed up the process.

exasperaited 1y ago

> I’m convinced that this is all what it looks like to live through the end of an empire (or whatever term you’d like). It feels to me like it's more like the beginning of an empire, in the sense of existing under an emperor. > I think our lives are short enough that it can be easy to perceive something like America as “always was, always will be” and the rest is just trivia you learn in history class. I think it very interesting that one of the things the USA is going to have to grapple with, in the middle of the most contentious presidency in its history, is the semiquincentennial of independence itself. The bicentennial of independence in 1976 was I think largely an uncontentious thing even though the Vietnam conflict had ended only a couple of years beforehand and the presidency was in the hands of a guy who had taken over the job from, and pardoned, a crook who was forced to resign. Internationally people were pretty kind and generous to the USA. I don't think anyone, anywhere on the planet, is prepared diplomatically for how it will play out this time. Next year is going to be a heck of a year.

nosignono 1y ago
The US president has been an emperor in all but title for generations at least.
- exasperaited 1y ago
  I think this will have been news to Biden and especially to Obama, who didn't even get the deference about the new suit.
  - nosignono 1y ago
    If you think Obama wasn't overseeing an empire, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should ask the people of Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya about the US drone strikes there.
    - exasperaited 1y ago
      Oh, that isn't what I mean, and I am willing to accept your view. (And I was joking a bit anyway) What I mean about the beginning of an empire is, as I said -- the beginning of a true individual, not simply unitary, emperor. That the executive is transforming into l'état, c'est moi, which no US president has had the luxury of ever before, because Congress wouldn't ever have handed over the influence and authority they had.

antonvs 1y ago

This could still be turned around, with some luck and effort. But it won't happen if the voters don't get out of frog-being-slowly-boiled mode, clinging to normalcy bias. So in the end your assessment is probably correct. It's probably going to be a long, slow decline though.

nosignono 1y ago

The collapse of an empire is correct. USA is absolutely an empire, and we're clearly seeing unprecedented contractions and spasms of our government as it ineffectually attempts to govern while doing everything it can to foment civil agitation.

IAmGraydon 1y ago

You wouldn’t have said that before Trump took office, so it seems to me that it’s one idiot causing all of the problems and not the kind of slow decline that happens over a long time span when an empire falls. What Trump is, is not compatible with who we are as a country and I’m confident he is going to bring about his own undoing when the economy really starts falling apart.

Waterluvian 1y ago
Actually I would argue that America has been slowly in decline for a long time now. And the inflection point is when there’s critical mass of that rot that someone like Trump can be elected. How embarrassing for all Americans that it got this bad, but even worse: it being this bad will greatly speed up the process.