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Pirate Bay Founder Arrest Followed By $59m Swedish Aid Package For Cambodia
- cpach 14y agoHere's hoping that some real, investigative journalist (i.e. not someone from Torrentfreak) will start digging into these events. Currently it's just an unfounded insinuation.
- mistercow 14y agoIt doesn't matter who does the investigation, so long as the evidence they find is reasonably easy to validate.
- cpach 14y agoAgreed. It will however take original research, which costs time and money. I reckon that's a bit of an issue for most blog writers (and of course that applies for lots of people that write for traditional publications as well).
- whatnottt 14y agoThis would be a good time for an experienced enough investigating journalist to set up a Kickstarter project on it. I'd chip in at least..
- cpach 14y agoNow that Peer has refuted the gossip[1], perhaps this topic can be considered settled. It's an interesting idea though. Some subjects are interesting enough that it actually might work. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4480830 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4480830
- Uchikoma 14y agoI'm on no side, but what did he refute? That no strings were attached? That noone threatened to hold payments back?
- gavinlynch 14y agoI wouldn't be surprised one single bit if it's true. But my question is: So what?
- mtgx 14y agoI knew this had to be about "foreign aid" somehow.
- norswap 14y agoWell at least he was not sold cheaply.
- revelation 14y agoAn aid package of 60 million dollars would be three times the amount they spent yearly on Cambodia in the last decade (with little variance). See [1]. [1]: http://www.openaid.se/en/countries/kambodja?year=2012 http://www.openaid.se/en/countries/kambodja?year=2012
- mongol 14y agoExcept the 60 million dollars are for two years, as described in the article linked from Torrentfreak. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2012-09/05/c_131829212.htm http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2012-09/05/c_1318292...
- guelo 14y agoSo it is a 50% increase from 20 to 30 million.
- reinhardt 14y agoSo "only" 150% of the average yearly state expenses instead of 300%. Was there a point you were trying to make or you're just being pedantic?
- stephengillie 14y agoI think the point he's trying to imply (and you're trying to ignore) is that Sweden effectively paid Cambodia $20 million to arrest this person.
- reinhardt 14y agoI'm not really following your math, the point is that it's a shit-ton of money for Cambodia, whether we're talking about $60M or $30M per year.
- mongol 14y agoYou read my point. You can fill in the dots. Also, see the other comments in this thread that this is _old_ news, which predates Anakata's arrest.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- mcantelon 14y agoAh, so the folks who were inexplicably sure that it had nothing to do with his Pirate Bay association were completely wrong. The good news, I guess, is that Swedish prison will likely be a less heinous experience.
- chollida1 14y ago> Ah, so the folks who were inexplicably sure that it had nothing to do with his Pirate Bay association were completely wrong. I know that was probably an emotional response and the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_caus... ) gets thrown around here alot more than it should but that's a very strong statement to make. Is it possible that it's true, yes. Is there evidence that makes it appear likely, not that I've seen. Maybe there will be more evidence coming up to help prove the swedes bribed the Cambodians to arrest him, but so far it looks like its way to soon to say this is definitely what happened.
- mcantelon 14y agoYes, plausible deniability is present... the Swedish may have a soft spot for Cambodia's challenges. A list of Swedish foreign aid amounts and recipients would be interesting to compare this $59M with.
- chollida1 14y agoas someone else pointed out. The $59M is over 2 years, and the foreign aid was decided on 6 months previous to this. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4480754 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4480754
- mcantelon 14y agoAh. I wonder how long he's been in Cambodia...
- sandstrom 14y ago
- vannevar 14y agoA more interesting question is, who is paying the Swedes, and how? They really don't have a dog in this fight, so whatever motivation they have, it hasn't been made public. Yet.
- cpach 14y agoUhm, we do pay taxes here you know :) As for the motives... IF the arrest of Anakata was a paid job, what other reasons than keeping good relations with the U.S. do we (or rather, the Swedish state) need?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- vannevar 14y agoA fair statement, but I'm not sure that nebulous 'good relations' are enough to explain the amount of time and money the Swedish government is pouring into what would seem, at least from a Swedish perspective, to be petty crime at best. I suspect there are much more specific gains being had, maybe officially through some kind of US concessions or accommodations, or unofficially. Certainly the RIAA and MPAA can open (and close) lucrative doors to Swedish media, for example.
- evo_9 14y agoHollywood - who else stands the most to gain?
- mhurron 14y ago> They really don't have a dog in this fight Really? "The Pirate Bay (commonly abbreviated TPB) is a Swedish file-sharing website founded in 2003..." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay There are media companies in other parts of the world too you know. The world is a big place, it even exists outside the US.
- vannevar 14y ago
- tnuc 14y agoMaybe he will get bail and make it to the Ecuador embassy.
- Peer 14y agoAm I the only one tired over how TorrentFreak will say anything, related or not, to try to confirm their bias? This aid was decided on for over 5 months ago, in march 2012 (http://www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/574/a/94013 http://www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/574/a/94013), and it is obviously not the result of Sweden trying to get at Svartholm. But if you want to be believe it then please do...
- cpach 14y agoThanks for the reference! See page 8, section 3: »The funds available for the period covered by the strategy amount to approximately SEK 400 million«. Can we end the speculation now, please?
- mongol 14y agoYes, but before that maybe we should throw the ball back in Torrentfreak's court. They tried to mislead us?
- cpach 14y agoWell, their bias is quite obvious, isn't it? IMO their articles get far too many upvotes around here. I actually flagged this article. Didn't seem to help much though.
- cpach 14y agoOh, and by the way: If Torrentfreak would like to be considered a venue of serious journalism, they ought to learn how to find sources like the one Peer linked to. It's not even written in Swedish, for the love of ${DEITY}, so I do think it can be considered low-hanging fruit.
- wccrawford 14y agoI'm not saying they did, but it's possible that they threatened to withhold this aid if they didn't get him. We currently don't know, and saying either way at this point doesn't mean much. We need some actual proof.
- rcfox 14y agoIs there actually a scandal here? An extradition treaty would allow Sweden to remove criminals from Cambodia. Just because there is no treaty, that doesn't mean that Cambodia can't hand criminals over, does it?
- benologist 14y agoIt's honestly a shame that TF's propaganda has found a home here on HN.
- Karunamon 14y agoThat's an interesting use of the word "propaganda".
- benologist 14y agoIt's quite literally exactly what propaganda is, according to dictionaries, wikipedia, etc... it doesn't stop being propaganda just because you like what they have to say, that just makes it successful propaganda. Also in the literal sense.
- Karunamon 14y agoIt also carries a lot of unspoken subtext, commonly used by opponents of a position to denigrate the argument without ever responding to it. "Oh it's just propaganda, it can be ignored" What exactly is misleading about TF's posting?
- benologist 14y agoPropaganda doesn't have to be "misleading", it's pushing the same narrow viewpoint over and over again to further some agenda. The agenda's called "making money off ads". This article's a great example since this money is only a small increase on the annual aid Sweden has been giving Cambodia for years, as pointed out in comments. Or in TorrentFreak speak, "Sweden bribing Cambodia for Pirate Bay arrest since 1979!".
- Karunamon 14y agoPropaganda doesn't have to be "misleading" It does according to the dictionary definitions I'm reading. Going by your definition, any viewpoint can be "propaganda" as long as it's repeated often enough for an agenda. Civil rights comes to mind, where the agenda is equality, but you don't hear anyone but far-right wingnuts calling the repeated insistence that discrimination is wrong propaganda. It's a loaded term, best avoided. The agenda's called "making money off people who want to believe they're the hero in this story for pirating X" And there's the denigration. That didn't take long. This article's a great example since this money is only a small increase on the annual aid Sweden has been giving Cambodia for years 50% is a small increase?!
- staffan 14y agoThis is not a story. Sweden have in the past (since 1979) sent aid to Cambodia. In 2011 we sent 168 million SEK and in 2012 and 2013 we will send 200 million (a total of 400 million for 2 years) and this was decided a long time ago. Do you really think Sweden will pay 400 million to get one person back and have him serve ONE year in prison? http://www.swedenabroad.com/sv-SE/Ambassader/Phnom-Penh/Utvecklingssamarbete/Sveriges-utvecklingssamarbete-med-Kambodja/ http://www.swedenabroad.com/sv-SE/Ambassader/Phnom-Penh/Utve...
- Uchikoma 14y agoFor sure not. But if I'd pay 400M SEK and had a little wish, I'm sure I'd let the other side know about my wishes. It's not my argument, but the interesting argument is not that Sweden paid 400M SEK to get a prisoner - that cause and effect are working this way. But it's interesting that he is arrested after quite some time in Cambodia and Sweden is paying 400M SEK aid.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- goggles99 14y agoDon't aid in the transportation/distribution of stolen goods and you won't be arrested for it!!!
- alter8 14y agoIt seems these guys running shady businesses on internet have never heard about Brazil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Train_Robbery_%281963%29#Ronnie_Biggs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Train_Robbery_%281963%29#... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesare_Battisti_%28born_1954%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesare_Battisti_%28born_1954%29
- aaron695 14y agoIt’s sad the trolls seem to have gotten hold of this. Torrent Freak has not even gone close to saying Sweden has bought him. When countries give foreign aid, it is often, at least in part, for power plays. Japan regularly does this in the pacific islands and uses their support to continue whaling. To argue the amount of money they give (quite large) is so they can continue whaling is also ridiculous. In fact most Japanese don’t even eat whale or care about the issue. It’s mostly political. Sweden is owed a few favours and it seems they have called one in. The story here is why they have chosen this as one of them.
- tripzilch 14y ago> The story here is why they have chosen this as one of them. I suppose they would have preferred to obtain Assange, but he wasn't in Cambodia? ;-)
- nl 14y agoThis is nonsense. It is easy to make up a conspiricy, and very hard to disprove it. Nevertheless... Sweden's foreign aid policies are well respected internationally[1]. For TorrentFreak to try and imply that aid to Cambodia - one of the poorest countries in the world - was in any way linked to their coincidental arrest of a person with an international warrant out for his arrest is shameful. If nothing else, the foreign aid was announced prior to his arrest[2] and is part of a long running aid program[3]. Not only is it entirely made up, but it puts an unnecessary taint of corruption on a program that saves lives. As anyone scanning thread can attest, the last thing a foreign aid program needs is any kind of association with corruption - especially one that is made up. It is well known that shoddy journalists can use their pulpit to smear anything they want and there is little that the target can do (eg, questions like "Tell me when you stopped beating your wife"). That is what is going on here, and people who are falling for it should be ashamed of themselves. [1] http://www.thelocal.se/16158/20081205/ http://www.thelocal.se/16158/20081205/ [2] http://www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/574/a/94013 http://www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/574/a/94013 [3] http://www.swedenabroad.com/en-GB/Embassies/Phnom-Penh/Development-Cooperation/Swedens-Development-Cooperation-with-Cambodia/ http://www.swedenabroad.com/en-GB/Embassies/Phnom-Penh/Devel...
- mistercow 14y agoViewed through Bayesian lens, the problem with this article is pretty obvious. You could almost define "speculative" as "giving an observation for which the priors are unclear and only vaguely gestured at". Here, we have the observation that Sweden gave $60 million foreign aid to Cambodia, but we are given no clear idea of the prior probability that Sweden would give this much and at this time (but we are given the implication that the evidence is significant). We don't need a hard probability estimate (few of us are actually going to rigorously apply Bayes' rule), but we do need enough information to come to a basic idea of the probability on our own. What does Sweden usually give to Cambodia? When is this usually announced? If this is an unusual amount of money, are there other good explanations for this besides corruption? The problem is that the data in the article leaves us to use a relatively uninformed prior. $60 million is not that much money for a nation with Sweden's economy. It seems fairly likely that some kind of diplomatic news mention would happen regarding Sweden and Cambodia within any given two week period (close enough to appear associated with any given event), and since Sweden and Cambodia are on friendly terms, that mention is likely to be positive. Supposing that this is an unusually large amount of aid, there are plenty of possible reasons that Cambodia, often plagued with both droughts and floods, might have been hit particularly hard in the last year and needed more, so even if this is an unusual amount of aid. This all puts the prior for the observation pretty high, which cuts its evidential weight down very very low. As you illustrated, that prior gets higher as we add information, further weakening the evidence.
- Kiro 14y agoI'm surprised people assume the arrest has anything to do with TPB at all. It's anakata we're talking about.
- _of 14y agoSince this is such a serious claim, it would be good with an original source. This site (torrentfreak) is not unbiased.
- tripzilch 14y agoIt would have been nice if TorrentFreak would've quoted a few of the references made in the discussion here, namely: 1) how much of an increase this is compared to the regular yearly foreign aid of Sweden to Cambodia (I understand it's 150%, so "just" 20M extra, and that the yearly foreign aid to Cambodia has very little variance. 2) when this increase was decided upon. 3) since when Svartholm was wanted, and known/expected to flee to Cambodia. Those answers still don't quite rule out the two events are connected, but it would definitely make TorrentFreak's article quite a lot more balanced. Besides, it's easy enough to expose the big entertainment lobbies and their copyright watchdogs without making things up. It also shows that HN is better at doing proper journalistic research ;-)