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I don't really get this logic. Why don't they count it as revenue the moment the credits are issued? Or is this more just a "this is a convenient free win as

I don't really get this logic. Why don't they count it as revenue the moment the credits are issued? Or is this more just a "this is a convenient free win as a consequence of how we decide to manage our books."

Havoc 1y ago
> Why don't they count it as revenue the moment the credits are issued? Because the corresponding service hasn't been rendered yet. Conceptually you want the revenue and the costs to generate it recognised at roughly same time else your P/L number is volatile/meaningless
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  Well, your actual profits and expenses are volatile. Is it bad for your accounting to reflect the reality of your company?
  - Havoc 1y ago
    > reflect the reality of your company Accounting is an exercise in standardization and communication. Like a network protocol you want different parts speaking the same language even if it requires some constraints and abstractions The info you describe is something you’d have FP&A/MI team do. There you can do whatever the team thinks is best to capture things in a unique manner Mixing the two is generally a recipe for disaster (and IRS audits)
    - thaumasiotes 1y ago
      What? This is just the difference between cash accounting and accrual accounting. Using cash accounting isn't going to get you audited, or even raise any eyebrows.
- stockresearcher 1y ago
  The IRS allows companies to choose between cash-based and accrual-based accounting. Most companies choose accrual-based accounting. It's much more complicated, and one of the things about it is that you don't don't get to count money collected as revenue until the customer actually "uses" it to buy something from you. That's just the way that goes. Remember - the company chose this method of accounting. If you form a company and don't make the choice, the IRS will assume you are using cash-based accounting. But here's something interesting - Warren Buffett explaining how liabilities are insanely profitable for Berkshire Hathaway (except that he calls it "float" instead of "liabilities") [1]. Liabilities are just a number on a chart, neither good nor bad. How you handle them, how you communicate about them, etc. That's what matters. [1] https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2009ltr.pdf https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2009ltr.pdf
  - toast0 1y ago
    The IRS allows for cash-based accounting, but GAAP requires accrual-based accounting, if you meet the thresholds and have to file statements with the SEC, then you have to at least follow GAAP for the statements. I don't know if Anthropic needs to file statements with the SEC, but they might be trying to get their books aligned for it.
gwd 1y ago
> Why don't they count it as revenue the moment the credits are issued? You've gotten the revenue but you haven't paid the cost for that revenue yet. Those are essentially un-cashed checks that the accountants have to keep on the books indefinitely otherwise. Imagine you're chugging along and out of the blue someone shows up with $100M of credits they bought 10 years ago, expecting you to do something for them. Now you're using electricity and displacing new revenue for money that may be long gone.
- lubujackson 1y ago
  Makes sense. Just like how when you put money in the bank they have to put it in a big vault and not touch it so you can access it in the future. Oh wait... rules for thee and not for me.
  - gwd 1y ago
    Not sure what you mean... banks definitely have to worry about people unexpectedly coming and asking for all their money back [1]. The difference is, that risk management is the bank's core business. That's not the business Anthropic wants to be in. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run
  - Etheryte 1y ago
    Banks have very strict legal rules about minimum balance sheets. They don't have to have 100% coverage, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
    - throwaway4496 1y ago
      A fraction of it, it is called fractional reserve banking for a reason.

Havoc 1y ago

> Why don't they count it as revenue the moment the credits are issued? Because the corresponding service hasn't been rendered yet. Conceptually you want the revenue and the costs to generate it recognised at roughly same time else your P/L number is volatile/meaningless

thaumasiotes 1y ago
Well, your actual profits and expenses are volatile. Is it bad for your accounting to reflect the reality of your company?
- Havoc 1y ago
  > reflect the reality of your company Accounting is an exercise in standardization and communication. Like a network protocol you want different parts speaking the same language even if it requires some constraints and abstractions The info you describe is something you’d have FP&A/MI team do. There you can do whatever the team thinks is best to capture things in a unique manner Mixing the two is generally a recipe for disaster (and IRS audits)
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    What? This is just the difference between cash accounting and accrual accounting. Using cash accounting isn't going to get you audited, or even raise any eyebrows.
stockresearcher 1y ago
The IRS allows companies to choose between cash-based and accrual-based accounting. Most companies choose accrual-based accounting. It's much more complicated, and one of the things about it is that you don't don't get to count money collected as revenue until the customer actually "uses" it to buy something from you. That's just the way that goes. Remember - the company chose this method of accounting. If you form a company and don't make the choice, the IRS will assume you are using cash-based accounting. But here's something interesting - Warren Buffett explaining how liabilities are insanely profitable for Berkshire Hathaway (except that he calls it "float" instead of "liabilities") [1]. Liabilities are just a number on a chart, neither good nor bad. How you handle them, how you communicate about them, etc. That's what matters. [1] https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2009ltr.pdf https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2009ltr.pdf
- toast0 1y ago
  The IRS allows for cash-based accounting, but GAAP requires accrual-based accounting, if you meet the thresholds and have to file statements with the SEC, then you have to at least follow GAAP for the statements. I don't know if Anthropic needs to file statements with the SEC, but they might be trying to get their books aligned for it.

gwd 1y ago

> Why don't they count it as revenue the moment the credits are issued? You've gotten the revenue but you haven't paid the cost for that revenue yet. Those are essentially un-cashed checks that the accountants have to keep on the books indefinitely otherwise. Imagine you're chugging along and out of the blue someone shows up with $100M of credits they bought 10 years ago, expecting you to do something for them. Now you're using electricity and displacing new revenue for money that may be long gone.

lubujackson 1y ago
Makes sense. Just like how when you put money in the bank they have to put it in a big vault and not touch it so you can access it in the future. Oh wait... rules for thee and not for me.
- gwd 1y ago
  Not sure what you mean... banks definitely have to worry about people unexpectedly coming and asking for all their money back [1]. The difference is, that risk management is the bank's core business. That's not the business Anthropic wants to be in. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run
- Etheryte 1y ago
  Banks have very strict legal rules about minimum balance sheets. They don't have to have 100% coverage, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
  - throwaway4496 1y ago
    A fraction of it, it is called fractional reserve banking for a reason.