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You can finance the purchase to avoid upfront payments. And in many cases, the energy savings exceed the finance payments, resulting in a net monthly gain from

You can finance the purchase to avoid upfront payments. And in many cases, the energy savings exceed the finance payments, resulting in a net monthly gain from a cash flow basis with no upfront payment.

gregbot 1y ago
Im pretty sure if that were a common situation more people would have rooftop solar and there wouldn’t need to be subsidies for it.
- igor47 1y ago
  Are you assuming people are rational, informed, and interested? Strong assumptions. I recommend doing a little research vs going off the vibes
  - at-fates-hands 1y ago
    I've been doing research for the last 20 years. Every single year I talk to companies and the cost has gone down, barely. I've been told every year for the last 20 years that technology is getting so much better. The panels are so much more efficient, cost less, the state and federal govt have tax breaks, blah blah, blah. The Chinese have found a way to produce them this way and that way, "Oh you just wait, its really going to be affordable in the next few years!" No, its still not affordable. If it were, like OP said you would see them on every house in your neighborhood. I've wanted to put solar on my house for very long time and every year its the same thing. "Finance a $15,000 loan and in ten years you'll have free electricity!!" I would say anybody who's rational, informed and interested looking at that would 100% of the time its not worth it.
    - igor47 1y ago
      Solar module prices over the past 20 years went from $2/watt to $.3/watt. Installed prices are a little more, going from maybe $6/watt to ~ $3/watt. I paid about $3.5/watt installed in Berkeley 3 years ago, a place not known for affordability. In the meantime, (average in the US) electricity rates went from ~$.10/kW to about $.16/kW. If over that period, your payback period has remained constant, you must have dramatically (like 20x ) reduced your power usage. Congratulations!
at-fates-hands 1y ago
>> You can finance the purchase to avoid upfront payments. Yeah and then you pay interest on the loan. Which then makes it EVEN MORE expensive AND lengthens your ROI just to break even. FYI you're not "saving" anything until A) Your loan is paid off and B) Your array is generating enough energy to compensate for your existing energy use. Your numbers just don't add up: $15,000 for a 5Kw array. $15,000 loan with a VERY generous 5% interest rate on an also very generous 6 year term. Interest paid over six years: $4,500 Total paid after six years: $19,500 Monthly payments would be around $240.00 The average monthly cost of electricity for Minneapolis is about $190.00 which is about 1,097kWh The monthly average your 5kWh array can generate in a month (assuming optimal conditions) is around 700kWh. Leaving you with a deficit of 397kWh you still need to pay for. So no, I'm not seeing how the cost savings will exceed your finance payments. It will eventually pay for itself once you get outside of that ROI period. And then what? You get 15 years of free electricity which amounts to: $190.00 * 12 = $2,280 $2,280 * 15 = $34,200 So then, over 25 years, your net gain is about: $14,000? Which is about $560/year? Not worth it at all.

gregbot 1y ago

Im pretty sure if that were a common situation more people would have rooftop solar and there wouldn’t need to be subsidies for it.

igor47 1y ago
Are you assuming people are rational, informed, and interested? Strong assumptions. I recommend doing a little research vs going off the vibes
- at-fates-hands 1y ago
  I've been doing research for the last 20 years. Every single year I talk to companies and the cost has gone down, barely. I've been told every year for the last 20 years that technology is getting so much better. The panels are so much more efficient, cost less, the state and federal govt have tax breaks, blah blah, blah. The Chinese have found a way to produce them this way and that way, "Oh you just wait, its really going to be affordable in the next few years!" No, its still not affordable. If it were, like OP said you would see them on every house in your neighborhood. I've wanted to put solar on my house for very long time and every year its the same thing. "Finance a $15,000 loan and in ten years you'll have free electricity!!" I would say anybody who's rational, informed and interested looking at that would 100% of the time its not worth it.
  - igor47 1y ago
    Solar module prices over the past 20 years went from $2/watt to $.3/watt. Installed prices are a little more, going from maybe $6/watt to ~ $3/watt. I paid about $3.5/watt installed in Berkeley 3 years ago, a place not known for affordability. In the meantime, (average in the US) electricity rates went from ~$.10/kW to about $.16/kW. If over that period, your payback period has remained constant, you must have dramatically (like 20x ) reduced your power usage. Congratulations!

at-fates-hands 1y ago

>> You can finance the purchase to avoid upfront payments. Yeah and then you pay interest on the loan. Which then makes it EVEN MORE expensive AND lengthens your ROI just to break even. FYI you're not "saving" anything until A) Your loan is paid off and B) Your array is generating enough energy to compensate for your existing energy use. Your numbers just don't add up: $15,000 for a 5Kw array. $15,000 loan with a VERY generous 5% interest rate on an also very generous 6 year term. Interest paid over six years: $4,500 Total paid after six years: $19,500 Monthly payments would be around $240.00 The average monthly cost of electricity for Minneapolis is about $190.00 which is about 1,097kWh The monthly average your 5kWh array can generate in a month (assuming optimal conditions) is around 700kWh. Leaving you with a deficit of 397kWh you still need to pay for. So no, I'm not seeing how the cost savings will exceed your finance payments. It will eventually pay for itself once you get outside of that ROI period. And then what? You get 15 years of free electricity which amounts to: $190.00 * 12 = $2,280 $2,280 * 15 = $34,200 So then, over 25 years, your net gain is about: $14,000? Which is about $560/year? Not worth it at all.