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I was an early adopter of Kagi, and paid for about two years. But somehow I missed that they give money to Yandex, and I felt too guilty continuing to give them

I was an early adopter of Kagi, and paid for about two years. But somehow I missed that they give money to Yandex, and I felt too guilty continuing to give them money because I want to support the people of Ukraine. So I cancelled recently. If Kagi stopped using Yandex, or somehow allowed accounts to configure a way so that their funds do not go to Yandex (unsure if this is even possible to split accounts this way) then I would sign back up immediately.

Livanskoy 1y ago
[flagged]
xyse53 1y ago
I want to stand on principle too. I switched from Google to Kagi about a year ago. If we're strictly comparing Google and Kagi, I consider Google far worse.
idiotsecant 1y ago
I would also really like it if Kagi didn't fund state-sponsored terrorism. On the other hand, the search is better, so...
- sitzkrieg 1y ago
  wait till you see what USA funds
  - idiotsecant 1y ago
    Ok... Are we just naming random countries that also do terrorism now? Inserting butwhaddaboudda YEWW ESS into literally every conversation is tiring. Yes, the US does bad stuff. It doesn't make funding terrorism by Kagi less bad.
    - xigoi 1y ago
      Pointing out hypocrisy is not whataboutism.
      - idiotsecant 1y ago
        Ok, I guess since the US is bad we should just never improve anything, ever. What a waste of time this conversation is.
  - TiredOfLife 1y ago
    Enlighten us.
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      Israel.
hiprob 1y ago
The CEO has expressed his stance in a forum post: https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo/19 https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio... "Kagi has been using yandex search api since 2019, long before current geopolitical tensions" The war in Ukraine has been ongoing since 2014. "We understand these are deeply personal issues for many. As someone who was a refugee of two wars, I'm not indifferent to human suffering." He is Serbian. Regardless, the option to exclude Yandex (and other search engines) results has been suggested here: https://kagifeedback.org/d/4727-option-to-choose-or-exclude-specific-external-indexes https://kagifeedback.org/d/4727-option-to-choose-or-exclude-...
mjlee 1y ago
The founder has responded to similar comments - https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo/19 https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...
- dmitrygr 1y ago
  God damn, that is some good reply! > The job of a search engine is to produce the most relevant search results, period. Kagi excels at this precisely because we remain unimpressed by world politics. The moment 'politics' becomes a factor in search results is the moment I stop working on a search engine. > We set out to fix search, not the world.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - 7373737373 1y ago
    The consequences of this attitude of indifference (at best) will scale if Kagi becomes popular
hcurtiss 1y ago
This has always struck me as pretty weak. Yes, paying Yandex indirectly results in paying taxes to the Russian government. But people are rarely so dogmatic about these matters. There are lots of despotic and tyrannical regimes in the world, under which companies must operate because people live there who must try to make a living. Punishing the people at those companies because they're obligated ot pay taxes to their rulers strikes me as rather ridiculous. Kagi is awesome. I appreciate the Yandex results. I'm not a big fan of Russia.
- addaon 1y ago
  > There are lots of despotic and tyrannical regimes in the world, under which companies must operate because people live there who must try to make a living. Right, but there's lots of companies in the world. Lots more than there are tyrannical regimes. Lots more than there are total regimes! We're not individually obligated to support each of them, when they financially support things we find abhorrent.
- graemep 1y ago
  Yes, people buy oil from middle eastern tyrannies, everything from China, things made from dubiously sourced raw materials etc. - but they somehow draw the line at one particular conflict or nation (not always Russia).
  - j_bum 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - arp242 1y ago
    China isn't invading Ukraine, assassinating people in Europe, and things like that. But no, I don't like the Chinese government either.
    - graemep 1y ago
      On the other hand there is the little matter of the Uygur genocide, and the suppression of other minority cultures.
dataflow 1y ago
Do you feel that Kagi going down completely could have any meaningful impact on the war? What leads you to believe that?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
radiofreeeuropa 1y ago
Does there exist another source for a good, broad web index that can provide results like mid-'00s Google? I use DDG mostly but if I need to actually search the web I go to Yandex (I don't have Kagi... at least not yet). I don't know of another place that can do that. Like, is there a viable alternative for Kagi?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
MSFT_Edging 1y ago
Google has a 1.2Bn cloud contract with the Israeli gov/military. There isn't really an escape from helping despotic, genocidal regimes.
int_19h 1y ago
If you want to support the people of Ukraine, the best thing you can do right now is give them money to buy more drones. This will have much more of an effect than Kagi's Yandex integration. I recommend https://dzygaspaw.com https://dzygaspaw.com personally, but there are many good crowdfunding organizers.
specproc 1y ago
Would you consider boycotting Google or Amazon because of their relationship with the Israeli military? I avoid Amazon, but it's pretty tough to avoid Google.
- Krssst 1y ago
  Israel is not a threat to Europe while it's hard to say the same for Putin. At least it matters if you live there.
  - specproc 1y ago
    The Government of Israel, as it currently stands, is absolutely a threat to Europe. It has brought genocide, concentration camps and forced starvation back into the Overton window for state actors pursuing security objectives. This should terrify everyone, whether inside Europe or not. In the UK, simply expressing support for a protest group is now imprisonable under anti-terror legislation. Germany is dishing out fines and deportations for as little as holding up signs. Post-war Europe is ostensibly built on rules and norms around human rights, democracy, and the rule of law. The behaviour of the state of Israel, and our governments' craven support for it, is causing rapid democratic backsliding and laying the groundwork for our next round of atrocities. Whatever one's moral perspective, or position on the middle east, this concerns everyone.

Livanskoy 1y ago

[flagged]

xyse53 1y ago

I want to stand on principle too. I switched from Google to Kagi about a year ago. If we're strictly comparing Google and Kagi, I consider Google far worse.

idiotsecant 1y ago

I would also really like it if Kagi didn't fund state-sponsored terrorism. On the other hand, the search is better, so...

sitzkrieg 1y ago
wait till you see what USA funds
- idiotsecant 1y ago
  Ok... Are we just naming random countries that also do terrorism now? Inserting butwhaddaboudda YEWW ESS into literally every conversation is tiring. Yes, the US does bad stuff. It doesn't make funding terrorism by Kagi less bad.
  - xigoi 1y ago
    Pointing out hypocrisy is not whataboutism.
    - idiotsecant 1y ago
      Ok, I guess since the US is bad we should just never improve anything, ever. What a waste of time this conversation is.
- TiredOfLife 1y ago
  Enlighten us.
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    Israel.

hiprob 1y ago

The CEO has expressed his stance in a forum post: https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo/19 https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio... "Kagi has been using yandex search api since 2019, long before current geopolitical tensions" The war in Ukraine has been ongoing since 2014. "We understand these are deeply personal issues for many. As someone who was a refugee of two wars, I'm not indifferent to human suffering." He is Serbian. Regardless, the option to exclude Yandex (and other search engines) results has been suggested here: https://kagifeedback.org/d/4727-option-to-choose-or-exclude-specific-external-indexes https://kagifeedback.org/d/4727-option-to-choose-or-exclude-...

mjlee 1y ago

The founder has responded to similar comments - https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo/19 https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...

dmitrygr 1y ago
God damn, that is some good reply! > The job of a search engine is to produce the most relevant search results, period. Kagi excels at this precisely because we remain unimpressed by world politics. The moment 'politics' becomes a factor in search results is the moment I stop working on a search engine. > We set out to fix search, not the world.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- 7373737373 1y ago
  The consequences of this attitude of indifference (at best) will scale if Kagi becomes popular

hcurtiss 1y ago

This has always struck me as pretty weak. Yes, paying Yandex indirectly results in paying taxes to the Russian government. But people are rarely so dogmatic about these matters. There are lots of despotic and tyrannical regimes in the world, under which companies must operate because people live there who must try to make a living. Punishing the people at those companies because they're obligated ot pay taxes to their rulers strikes me as rather ridiculous. Kagi is awesome. I appreciate the Yandex results. I'm not a big fan of Russia.

addaon 1y ago
> There are lots of despotic and tyrannical regimes in the world, under which companies must operate because people live there who must try to make a living. Right, but there's lots of companies in the world. Lots more than there are tyrannical regimes. Lots more than there are total regimes! We're not individually obligated to support each of them, when they financially support things we find abhorrent.
graemep 1y ago
Yes, people buy oil from middle eastern tyrannies, everything from China, things made from dubiously sourced raw materials etc. - but they somehow draw the line at one particular conflict or nation (not always Russia).
- j_bum 1y ago
  [flagged]
- arp242 1y ago
  China isn't invading Ukraine, assassinating people in Europe, and things like that. But no, I don't like the Chinese government either.
  - graemep 1y ago
    On the other hand there is the little matter of the Uygur genocide, and the suppression of other minority cultures.

dataflow 1y ago

Do you feel that Kagi going down completely could have any meaningful impact on the war? What leads you to believe that?

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

radiofreeeuropa 1y ago

Does there exist another source for a good, broad web index that can provide results like mid-'00s Google? I use DDG mostly but if I need to actually search the web I go to Yandex (I don't have Kagi... at least not yet). I don't know of another place that can do that. Like, is there a viable alternative for Kagi?

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

MSFT_Edging 1y ago

Google has a 1.2Bn cloud contract with the Israeli gov/military. There isn't really an escape from helping despotic, genocidal regimes.

int_19h 1y ago

If you want to support the people of Ukraine, the best thing you can do right now is give them money to buy more drones. This will have much more of an effect than Kagi's Yandex integration. I recommend https://dzygaspaw.com https://dzygaspaw.com personally, but there are many good crowdfunding organizers.

specproc 1y ago

Would you consider boycotting Google or Amazon because of their relationship with the Israeli military? I avoid Amazon, but it's pretty tough to avoid Google.

Krssst 1y ago
Israel is not a threat to Europe while it's hard to say the same for Putin. At least it matters if you live there.
- specproc 1y ago
  The Government of Israel, as it currently stands, is absolutely a threat to Europe. It has brought genocide, concentration camps and forced starvation back into the Overton window for state actors pursuing security objectives. This should terrify everyone, whether inside Europe or not. In the UK, simply expressing support for a protest group is now imprisonable under anti-terror legislation. Germany is dishing out fines and deportations for as little as holding up signs. Post-war Europe is ostensibly built on rules and norms around human rights, democracy, and the rule of law. The behaviour of the state of Israel, and our governments' craven support for it, is causing rapid democratic backsliding and laying the groundwork for our next round of atrocities. Whatever one's moral perspective, or position on the middle east, this concerns everyone.