5 ms·

Policy based on revenge, stupidity and probably bribes.

guywithahat 1y ago
Why would canceling contracts require bribes? Bribes are something you do to get government contracts. I wouldn't bribe you to not give me money
- pavel_lishin 1y ago
  If there's fewer money to invest in solar, that means traditional (read: fossil) fuels get used more.
- sofixa 1y ago
  > I wouldn't bribe you to not give me money But you would definitely bribe so your competitors don't get money and your services are required for longer. Existing coal and various other fossil fuel power generating and supply chain companies would be very happy to have less competition from solar. See Boeing managing to get the KC-45 tanker contract awarded to Airbus cancelled (for a plane that mostly existed and needed some US specific updates), to get a new one they won, that not only have they still not managed to deliver on, but they're also losing money.
- pixelatedindex 1y ago
  I can bribe you to cancel a contract so you can enter a contract with me
  - guywithahat 1y ago
    But the US government is not replacing the grants with grants to anyone else. Instead of the EPA giving out 7B in grants to their friends, each company will now have to fairly compete in the free market. Fair market competition =/= corruption
- dyauspitr 1y ago
  Oil companies desperately trying to burning fuels relevant
- plandis 1y ago
  I don’t know if I buy that this is a conspiracy with bribes but killing the grants reduces the rate of growth of energy generation which reduces its future supply. Adding energy capacity reduces the prices at which firms can sell energy since there would be more supply. Removing the grants means that existing energy generation firms need to worry less about how increased supply would harm their prices.
- fnordpiglet 1y ago
  Bribes here are likely donation based to PACs and they would be by fossil fuel interests who want to see the share of energy production from renewables slow or decline to maintain their own business. This is frankly akin to subsidizing cigarette smoking, a habit that fouls the air and kills people, but on a global scale. Sigh.
- ninininino 1y ago
  This is a simplistic understanding. Competing industries: solar, oil & natural gas, wind, nuclear, hydro etc. Cancel tax rebates, subsidies, grants, etc. for one of your competing industries and your own benefits because your costs and supply is relative to the others. Your own price is never evaluated in a vacuum where those other energy options are not relevant.
- pahkah 1y ago
  This particular bribe was reported on over a year ago, when Trump was raising money from oil execs for his campaign. It seems likely that the overall push against clean energy (pushing for dispatchable generation, canceling tax credits for green energy projects) is related. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/09/trump-asks-oil-executives-campaign-finance-00157131 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/09/trump-asks-oil-exec...
  - guywithahat 1y ago
    Rivian execs gave money to the Biden/Harris campaign and their causes, and they gave Rivian a ~6.6 billion dollar taxpayer subsidized loan. The idea an executive might have personal political opinions is not enough to claim it's corruption. It feels like your argument is they will have to compete in the free market instead of just being given free money, which isn't corruption. Corruption would be giving companies 7B in grants through the EPA or 6.6B dollar loans through the DOE. Letting people plan on a fair playing field isn't corruption https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/biden-throws-struggling-rivian-6-billion-lifeline-ev-factory https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/biden-throws-struggling-ri...
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  Bribes by those who would benefit from the contract being cancelled (oil, gas). Probably not actual bribes but “favors”, PAC support and the like.
- exe34 1y ago
  Do you seriously think "drill, baby, drill" is a policy based on careful study of the data on the impact on people's lives now and in the future?
normalaccess 1y ago
Or the fact that Microsoft believes they have cracked *fusion* power. Sun in a bottle. Microsoft is breaking ground in WA state building a new fusion reactor. https://kpq.com/helion-fusion-plant-chelan-pud/ EDIT: Adding description to video link Video from Real Engineering showing Helion's Pulsed Compression Fusion reactor prototype (2022). The same kind of reactor Helion is building in WA state for Microsoft. https://youtu.be/_bDXXWQxK38
- pavlov 1y ago
  Always downvoting YouTube links unless they come with extremely clear context ("This is a talk I gave at conference X", etc.)
  - normalaccess 1y ago
    That's fair, I forget there is no auto preview here... I'll add the description
- normalaccess 1y ago
  Boy, people don't seem to like the idea of fusion...
QuantumGood 1y ago
Lobbying vs bribes can be a distinction without a difference, but it usually needs to be included with bribes on any such list.

Why would canceling contracts require bribes? Bribes are something you do to get government contracts. I wouldn't bribe you to not give me money

pavel_lishin 1y ago
If there's fewer money to invest in solar, that means traditional (read: fossil) fuels get used more.
sofixa 1y ago
> I wouldn't bribe you to not give me money But you would definitely bribe so your competitors don't get money and your services are required for longer. Existing coal and various other fossil fuel power generating and supply chain companies would be very happy to have less competition from solar. See Boeing managing to get the KC-45 tanker contract awarded to Airbus cancelled (for a plane that mostly existed and needed some US specific updates), to get a new one they won, that not only have they still not managed to deliver on, but they're also losing money.
pixelatedindex 1y ago
I can bribe you to cancel a contract so you can enter a contract with me
- guywithahat 1y ago
  But the US government is not replacing the grants with grants to anyone else. Instead of the EPA giving out 7B in grants to their friends, each company will now have to fairly compete in the free market. Fair market competition =/= corruption
dyauspitr 1y ago
Oil companies desperately trying to burning fuels relevant
plandis 1y ago
I don’t know if I buy that this is a conspiracy with bribes but killing the grants reduces the rate of growth of energy generation which reduces its future supply. Adding energy capacity reduces the prices at which firms can sell energy since there would be more supply. Removing the grants means that existing energy generation firms need to worry less about how increased supply would harm their prices.
fnordpiglet 1y ago
Bribes here are likely donation based to PACs and they would be by fossil fuel interests who want to see the share of energy production from renewables slow or decline to maintain their own business. This is frankly akin to subsidizing cigarette smoking, a habit that fouls the air and kills people, but on a global scale. Sigh.
ninininino 1y ago
This is a simplistic understanding. Competing industries: solar, oil & natural gas, wind, nuclear, hydro etc. Cancel tax rebates, subsidies, grants, etc. for one of your competing industries and your own benefits because your costs and supply is relative to the others. Your own price is never evaluated in a vacuum where those other energy options are not relevant.
pahkah 1y ago
This particular bribe was reported on over a year ago, when Trump was raising money from oil execs for his campaign. It seems likely that the overall push against clean energy (pushing for dispatchable generation, canceling tax credits for green energy projects) is related. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/09/trump-asks-oil-executives-campaign-finance-00157131 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/09/trump-asks-oil-exec...
- guywithahat 1y ago
  Rivian execs gave money to the Biden/Harris campaign and their causes, and they gave Rivian a ~6.6 billion dollar taxpayer subsidized loan. The idea an executive might have personal political opinions is not enough to claim it's corruption. It feels like your argument is they will have to compete in the free market instead of just being given free money, which isn't corruption. Corruption would be giving companies 7B in grants through the EPA or 6.6B dollar loans through the DOE. Letting people plan on a fair playing field isn't corruption https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/biden-throws-struggling-rivian-6-billion-lifeline-ev-factory https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/biden-throws-struggling-ri...
insane_dreamer 1y ago
Bribes by those who would benefit from the contract being cancelled (oil, gas). Probably not actual bribes but “favors”, PAC support and the like.
exe34 1y ago
Do you seriously think "drill, baby, drill" is a policy based on careful study of the data on the impact on people's lives now and in the future?

normalaccess 1y ago

Or the fact that Microsoft believes they have cracked *fusion* power. Sun in a bottle. Microsoft is breaking ground in WA state building a new fusion reactor. https://kpq.com/helion-fusion-plant-chelan-pud/ EDIT: Adding description to video link Video from Real Engineering showing Helion's Pulsed Compression Fusion reactor prototype (2022). The same kind of reactor Helion is building in WA state for Microsoft. https://youtu.be/_bDXXWQxK38

pavlov 1y ago
Always downvoting YouTube links unless they come with extremely clear context ("This is a talk I gave at conference X", etc.)
- normalaccess 1y ago
  That's fair, I forget there is no auto preview here... I'll add the description
normalaccess 1y ago
Boy, people don't seem to like the idea of fusion...

QuantumGood 1y ago

Lobbying vs bribes can be a distinction without a difference, but it usually needs to be included with bribes on any such list.