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Isn’t it clearly a horrific crime against humanity to knowingly, instantaneously, and with premeditation, murder hundreds of thousands of civilians? The normal

Isn’t it clearly a horrific crime against humanity to knowingly, instantaneously, and with premeditation, murder hundreds of thousands of civilians? The normal response to this line of reasoning is that they were / could have been doing the same to us. Two wrongs does not make a right does it?

yes_really 1y ago
Japan was the one who started the war. Japan was the aggressor. Defending yourself by winning a war against an aggressor is not a "wrong". Many more people were saved by dropping the bombs than people died in it. And, while it is a tragedy that those people died, that fault lies with Japan, not the US.
- mananaysiempre 1y ago
  The point of the concept of war crimes is that it applies to you regardless of whether you think you’re in the right. Even if the other side is committing them, it still applies. That’s why the definitions take pains to not make them a winning strategy or unilaterally avoiding them a losing one: why we talk about (deliberately) targeting civilians, not (incidentally) killing them; why putting munitions in a Red Cross-marked hospital annuls all protections for it; etc.
wiseowise 1y ago
Of course it is, much more humane is to mount amphibious assault and kill millions.
Gibbon1 1y ago
My thoughts about this after 50 years of thinking about it is that war results in a relentless normalization of deviance. It's a good reason not to start wars.
Mordisquitos 1y ago
The firebombing of Tokyo[0] on 10 March 1945 is often considered even more destructive and lethal than either of the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or at the very least in the same ballpark. However, popular discourse never treats it as a crime against humanity. What is the qualitative difference between the killing 100,000 Japanese civilians in one morning using an atomic bomb and the killing 100,000 Japanese civilians in one night using explosive and incendiary devices? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_1945) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_194...
- deleted 1y ago
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flyinglizard 1y ago
The notion of "crimes against humanity" is a very modern construct. The Japanese civilian society paid a price for its militaristic adventures. Armies don't operate in vacuum, they're an extension of their society.
throw0101d 1y ago
> Isn’t it clearly a horrific crime against humanity to knowingly, instantaneously, and with premeditation, murder hundreds of thousands of civilians? What does "civilian" mean when it comes to Imperial Japan? * https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/there-are-no-civilians-japan https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/there-are-no-... The official Japanese plan to defend against a US landing was to have children attack the invading US soldiers: * https://www.hiroshimapeacemedia.jp/?p=141048 https://www.hiroshimapeacemedia.jp/?p=141048 * https://apjjf.org/mark-ealey/1689/article https://apjjf.org/mark-ealey/1689/article * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Operation_Ketsugō https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Operation_K...

yes_really 1y ago

Japan was the one who started the war. Japan was the aggressor. Defending yourself by winning a war against an aggressor is not a "wrong". Many more people were saved by dropping the bombs than people died in it. And, while it is a tragedy that those people died, that fault lies with Japan, not the US.

mananaysiempre 1y ago
The point of the concept of war crimes is that it applies to you regardless of whether you think you’re in the right. Even if the other side is committing them, it still applies. That’s why the definitions take pains to not make them a winning strategy or unilaterally avoiding them a losing one: why we talk about (deliberately) targeting civilians, not (incidentally) killing them; why putting munitions in a Red Cross-marked hospital annuls all protections for it; etc.

wiseowise 1y ago

Of course it is, much more humane is to mount amphibious assault and kill millions.

Gibbon1 1y ago

My thoughts about this after 50 years of thinking about it is that war results in a relentless normalization of deviance. It's a good reason not to start wars.

Mordisquitos 1y ago

The firebombing of Tokyo[0] on 10 March 1945 is often considered even more destructive and lethal than either of the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or at the very least in the same ballpark. However, popular discourse never treats it as a crime against humanity. What is the qualitative difference between the killing 100,000 Japanese civilians in one morning using an atomic bomb and the killing 100,000 Japanese civilians in one night using explosive and incendiary devices? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_1945) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_194...

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

flyinglizard 1y ago

The notion of "crimes against humanity" is a very modern construct. The Japanese civilian society paid a price for its militaristic adventures. Armies don't operate in vacuum, they're an extension of their society.

throw0101d 1y ago

> Isn’t it clearly a horrific crime against humanity to knowingly, instantaneously, and with premeditation, murder hundreds of thousands of civilians? What does "civilian" mean when it comes to Imperial Japan? * https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/there-are-no-civilians-japan https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/there-are-no-... The official Japanese plan to defend against a US landing was to have children attack the invading US soldiers: * https://www.hiroshimapeacemedia.jp/?p=141048 https://www.hiroshimapeacemedia.jp/?p=141048 * https://apjjf.org/mark-ealey/1689/article https://apjjf.org/mark-ealey/1689/article * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Operation_Ketsugō https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Operation_K...