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> the assignments could simply be worth 0% [..] that the proctored, for-credit exams would demand that they write similar essays. We run university programs at

> the assignments could simply be worth 0% [..] that the proctored, for-credit exams would demand that they write similar essays. We run university programs at my company, and arrived at this bit of insight as well. That said, some of your points are incorrect or incomplete: - You can't build systems assuming responsible individuals. These systems are guaranteed to fail. Instead, assume individuals are mould-able, and build a system which nurtures discipline towards goals. This works. - There are still issues with cheating, but it's more of an older way of thinking, that we developed methods to reset. - Advanced students need to be given more challenging assignments - quantum of assignments should be the same no matter the capability of students. This solution was unworkable until GenAI came about. Looked from a pure individual skill-building perspective your ideas are alluring, but if one looks at completion rates of any online courses (Udemy/Coursera - under 4%), then one understands why physical cohort-led education system can work. Happy to chat with anyone who'd like to delve deeper on this.

dagw 1y ago
if one looks at completion rates of any online courses (Udemy/Coursera - under 4%) As someone with a 96+% 'failure' rate on Udemy/Coursera I honestly don't see the relevance of this statistic. Most people going to University are there primarily because they want/need the degree. That piece of paper is really valuable, perhaps even more so than the knowledge gained. The piece of 'paper' offered by Coursera/Udemy etc. has basically zero value, so the people taking those courses are doing it almost exclusively for the knowledge they offer. Once you've learned what you wanted to learn from the course there is very little incentive to go the extra mile and go for the 'completion'.
- anilgulecha 1y ago
  The piece of paper is valuable because it represents a sustained effort of learning over an extended period of time. I understand how from an individual's pov what you said makes sense. Similarly I hope you understand why from the system's perspective: it's the effort that's mandated and not just the proficiency. Employers and others (higher education orgs, etc) care a lot about sustained effort, alongside proficiency. Only proficiency-focused systems (like Udemy/Coursera/Youtube) are not respected as credentials, since they do not showcase this.

dagw 1y ago

if one looks at completion rates of any online courses (Udemy/Coursera - under 4%) As someone with a 96+% 'failure' rate on Udemy/Coursera I honestly don't see the relevance of this statistic. Most people going to University are there primarily because they want/need the degree. That piece of paper is really valuable, perhaps even more so than the knowledge gained. The piece of 'paper' offered by Coursera/Udemy etc. has basically zero value, so the people taking those courses are doing it almost exclusively for the knowledge they offer. Once you've learned what you wanted to learn from the course there is very little incentive to go the extra mile and go for the 'completion'.

anilgulecha 1y ago
The piece of paper is valuable because it represents a sustained effort of learning over an extended period of time. I understand how from an individual's pov what you said makes sense. Similarly I hope you understand why from the system's perspective: it's the effort that's mandated and not just the proficiency. Employers and others (higher education orgs, etc) care a lot about sustained effort, alongside proficiency. Only proficiency-focused systems (like Udemy/Coursera/Youtube) are not respected as credentials, since they do not showcase this.