7 ms·

Doesn't it blow your minds how many people are adopting a linux as a primary user OS? And how irrelevant that is, since they don't even know that's what they're

by cryptoz 14y ago

Doesn't it blow your minds how many people are adopting a linux as a primary user OS? And how irrelevant that is, since they don't even know that's what they're running? Also, the S III has a barometer. How cool is that?

bornhuetter 14y ago
Even if people don't know they are using linux, it's still important if it leads to more investment in the development of linux and related software/technology. Can anyone shed some light on whether this is happening?
- kragen 14y ago
  Well, now many people think it's immoral to tell vendors about local-root holes in the Linux kernel, because it could keep people from jailbreaking their Android phones. So there's definitely an effect on Linux.
  - bookwormAT 14y ago
    You cannot jailbreak Android devices. Android devices usually come pre-jailbroken (able to run arbitrary software) out of the box. What you mean is getting root access to the linux system that android is based on. Which is a cool hack, but not similar to a jail brake.
    - comex 14y ago
      Since an iPhone jailbreak provides full access and is, in fact, usually used for tweaks and other modifications rather than custom apps, that is disingenuous.
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        An iPhone "jailbreak" both jailbreaks and roots the device. Android phones (except for very cheap ones from certain carriers I think?) only need to be rooted. It's not disingenuous, just (perhaps overly) pedantic. That is my understanding of it anyway.
        comex 14y ago
        "Jailbreak" is a made up term. As far as I know, it originally referred to accessing arbitrary files on the filesystem (getting out of a chroot jail), but it now refers to a process including gaining access to the bootloader and/or kernel. Either would be an acceptable use of "jailbreak" (though the former might be misleading), but the term has never meant "run unsigned apps". HTH :p
        jlgreco 14y ago
        Hmm, my impression was that the process of "jailbreaking" an iPhone was somehow rather related to breaking out of a chroot jail. I don't know where I got that impression though.
    - againandagain 14y ago
      Android uses a Java-based VM. iOS does not. Is that correct? Can you boot your own OS (sans Java VM) on an Android device? How easy is that to do?
      - css771 14y ago
        The Nexus devices are generally the most open of all Android devices. Consequently, there's a Firefox OS port, in alpha right now, for the Galaxy Nexus. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1805282 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1805282 Many Android phones can also run various other distros using chroot.
    - kragen 14y ago
      Android users who don't have root are still in jail, because even if they can run arbitrary application software, they can't choose not to run arbitrary preinstalled software, so jailbreaking is still necessary.
huxley 14y ago
Similar situation for *BSD on the iPhone/iPad/iPod touch, it is a golden age for Unix/Linux but, like you say, invisible to the end-user.
- bornhuetter 14y ago
  Do you know whether that has helped or hindered other BSD based OSes?
  - huxley 14y ago
    It has exposed a lot of people to BSD Unix, which I think helped some. But outside of developers and hackers, most people have so little exposure to the Unix side of MacOS X (and practically none on iOS) that it wasn't as big an impact as some of us (unrealistically?) hoped.
  - lmm 14y ago
    Apple have sponsored some major useful things that the BSDs now use e.g. LLVM/Clang.
- spot 14y ago
  Apple's devices are based on Mach which has a different kernel than BSD. Though it does use some BSD code it's not accurate to call it *BSD.
  - sp332 14y ago
    The kernel is a drop-in replacement for a BSD kernel, so the OS is still BSD.
  - huxley 14y ago
    There's more to iOS/OSX Unix than the kernel. The Darwin portion is for most intents and purposes based on BSD -- particularly FreeBSD-- running on top of XNU (a hybrid Mach 3.0 microkernel with big chunks of the monolithic BSD kernel embedded). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)#Kernel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)#Kerne... Concerning the BSD portions, see this from Apple's Kernel docs: http://goo.gl/1sp69 http://goo.gl/1sp69 "Integrated with Darwin is a customized version of the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) operating system. Darwin’s implementation of BSD includes much of the POSIX API, which higher-level apps can also use to implement basic app features. BSD serves as the basis for the file systems and networking facilities of OS X. In addition, it provides several programming interfaces and services, including: The process model (process IDs, signals, and so on); Basic security policies such as file permissions and user and group IDs; Threading support (POSIX threads); Networking support (BSD sockets)" That accounts for an immense amount of what a kernel normally does. Besides, I have never met a NeXT or Apple employee that didn't consider Darwin to be BSD. It's a radically modified BSD but I think it's still a descendant.
eco 14y ago
The Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy Note, and Xoom do too. It's used to speed up GPS fixing (knowing your altitude helps resolve your location more quickly). A Google employee said that he didn't believe the barometer in the Galaxy Nexus was weather grade. There is an app called pressureNet[1] that reports your barometric data and then builds a map of the results that anyone can see. Kind of interesting but I don't know if it's actually useful for anything yet (I welcome Google Weather though). [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.cumulonimbus.barometernetwork&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.cumulonimbu...
r00fus 14y ago
I haven't been surprised about consumer Linux from the time I got a Linux-powered TiVo back in 2003. Linux with a very nice UI = win for everyone (except, I suppose the FSF who argue that Google/TiVo's usage of the GPL v2 was a perversion of the intent). What's more interesting is that it is (assuming you have a boot-unlocked device) running free-as-in-libre software.
bane 14y ago
"Also, the S III has a barometer. How cool is that?" The number of sensors in these portable computers is astonishing. If you look at them as a tricorder-like sensor kit, there's very little else on the market that can match them. The fact that I have something in my pocket right now that can almost detect individual photons, EM fields (within in a limited set of bands), barometric pressure, magnetic fields, orientation, intertial measurements, planetary magnetic bearing, gravitational fields, etc. and can provide global satellite positioning to within 1m, global communications network access on several wire-free networks via voice, video or data, and can translate my voice in near-real-time, scan barcodes, and then can play games, movies, music, record my voice, take photos, be a flashlight, compose music, let me paint a picture, take notes, access a global encyclopedia, the internet, be a web server, an ftp server, a wireless headset to my computer, act as a strobe light, act as a visual Morse-code broadcaster, rolodex, email system, several kinds of graphing calculators...and myriad other uses... it's absurd. I'm living, literally, in a science fiction future.

by cryptoz 14y ago

bornhuetter 14y ago

Even if people don't know they are using linux, it's still important if it leads to more investment in the development of linux and related software/technology. Can anyone shed some light on whether this is happening?

kragen 14y ago
Well, now many people think it's immoral to tell vendors about local-root holes in the Linux kernel, because it could keep people from jailbreaking their Android phones. So there's definitely an effect on Linux.
- bookwormAT 14y ago
  You cannot jailbreak Android devices. Android devices usually come pre-jailbroken (able to run arbitrary software) out of the box. What you mean is getting root access to the linux system that android is based on. Which is a cool hack, but not similar to a jail brake.
  - comex 14y ago
    Since an iPhone jailbreak provides full access and is, in fact, usually used for tweaks and other modifications rather than custom apps, that is disingenuous.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      An iPhone "jailbreak" both jailbreaks and roots the device. Android phones (except for very cheap ones from certain carriers I think?) only need to be rooted. It's not disingenuous, just (perhaps overly) pedantic. That is my understanding of it anyway.
      - comex 14y ago
        "Jailbreak" is a made up term. As far as I know, it originally referred to accessing arbitrary files on the filesystem (getting out of a chroot jail), but it now refers to a process including gaining access to the bootloader and/or kernel. Either would be an acceptable use of "jailbreak" (though the former might be misleading), but the term has never meant "run unsigned apps". HTH :p
        jlgreco 14y ago
        Hmm, my impression was that the process of "jailbreaking" an iPhone was somehow rather related to breaking out of a chroot jail. I don't know where I got that impression though.
  - againandagain 14y ago
    Android uses a Java-based VM. iOS does not. Is that correct? Can you boot your own OS (sans Java VM) on an Android device? How easy is that to do?
    - css771 14y ago
      The Nexus devices are generally the most open of all Android devices. Consequently, there's a Firefox OS port, in alpha right now, for the Galaxy Nexus. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1805282 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1805282 Many Android phones can also run various other distros using chroot.
  - kragen 14y ago
    Android users who don't have root are still in jail, because even if they can run arbitrary application software, they can't choose not to run arbitrary preinstalled software, so jailbreaking is still necessary.

huxley 14y ago

Similar situation for *BSD on the iPhone/iPad/iPod touch, it is a golden age for Unix/Linux but, like you say, invisible to the end-user.

bornhuetter 14y ago
Do you know whether that has helped or hindered other BSD based OSes?
- huxley 14y ago
  It has exposed a lot of people to BSD Unix, which I think helped some. But outside of developers and hackers, most people have so little exposure to the Unix side of MacOS X (and practically none on iOS) that it wasn't as big an impact as some of us (unrealistically?) hoped.
- lmm 14y ago
  Apple have sponsored some major useful things that the BSDs now use e.g. LLVM/Clang.
spot 14y ago
Apple's devices are based on Mach which has a different kernel than BSD. Though it does use some BSD code it's not accurate to call it *BSD.
- sp332 14y ago
  The kernel is a drop-in replacement for a BSD kernel, so the OS is still BSD.
- huxley 14y ago
  There's more to iOS/OSX Unix than the kernel. The Darwin portion is for most intents and purposes based on BSD -- particularly FreeBSD-- running on top of XNU (a hybrid Mach 3.0 microkernel with big chunks of the monolithic BSD kernel embedded). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)#Kernel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)#Kerne... Concerning the BSD portions, see this from Apple's Kernel docs: http://goo.gl/1sp69 http://goo.gl/1sp69 "Integrated with Darwin is a customized version of the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) operating system. Darwin’s implementation of BSD includes much of the POSIX API, which higher-level apps can also use to implement basic app features. BSD serves as the basis for the file systems and networking facilities of OS X. In addition, it provides several programming interfaces and services, including: The process model (process IDs, signals, and so on); Basic security policies such as file permissions and user and group IDs; Threading support (POSIX threads); Networking support (BSD sockets)" That accounts for an immense amount of what a kernel normally does. Besides, I have never met a NeXT or Apple employee that didn't consider Darwin to be BSD. It's a radically modified BSD but I think it's still a descendant.

eco 14y ago

The Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy Note, and Xoom do too. It's used to speed up GPS fixing (knowing your altitude helps resolve your location more quickly). A Google employee said that he didn't believe the barometer in the Galaxy Nexus was weather grade. There is an app called pressureNet[1] that reports your barometric data and then builds a map of the results that anyone can see. Kind of interesting but I don't know if it's actually useful for anything yet (I welcome Google Weather though). [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.cumulonimbus.barometernetwork&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.cumulonimbu...

r00fus 14y ago

I haven't been surprised about consumer Linux from the time I got a Linux-powered TiVo back in 2003. Linux with a very nice UI = win for everyone (except, I suppose the FSF who argue that Google/TiVo's usage of the GPL v2 was a perversion of the intent). What's more interesting is that it is (assuming you have a boot-unlocked device) running free-as-in-libre software.

bane 14y ago

"Also, the S III has a barometer. How cool is that?" The number of sensors in these portable computers is astonishing. If you look at them as a tricorder-like sensor kit, there's very little else on the market that can match them. The fact that I have something in my pocket right now that can almost detect individual photons, EM fields (within in a limited set of bands), barometric pressure, magnetic fields, orientation, intertial measurements, planetary magnetic bearing, gravitational fields, etc. and can provide global satellite positioning to within 1m, global communications network access on several wire-free networks via voice, video or data, and can translate my voice in near-real-time, scan barcodes, and then can play games, movies, music, record my voice, take photos, be a flashlight, compose music, let me paint a picture, take notes, access a global encyclopedia, the internet, be a web server, an ftp server, a wireless headset to my computer, act as a strobe light, act as a visual Morse-code broadcaster, rolodex, email system, several kinds of graphing calculators...and myriad other uses... it's absurd. I'm living, literally, in a science fiction future.