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I would mostly agree, but I like that I can use tmux locally and remotely and thus have the same interface wherever I do my work (and regardless of what termina

I would mostly agree, but I like that I can use tmux locally and remotely and thus have the same interface wherever I do my work (and regardless of what terminal I use). Then, there's the fact that some terminals capture too many keybindings and get in the way of some terminal code editors I'd like to use (e.g. recently I was again trying to use flow <https://github.com/neurocyte/flow https://github.com/neurocyte/flow> and its next-tab and previous-tab shortcuts clash with Ghostty's). If I had a terminal that 1) was nothing but a black box with the capability to display Unicode font glyphs and ligatures correctly, 2) works under Wayland, and 3) captures as few keybindings as possible, I'd use it locally with tmux and live happy.

godelski 1y ago
> I like that I can use tmux locally and remotely and thus have the same interface wherever I do my work The reason I don't do this (even though a trivial config could make this possible) is I want more indications that I'm remote vs local. I'll even change the remote status bar (sometimes theme) so there's more visual indication (an icon helps, but it quickly becomes invisible, just like the hostname). To be clear, I don't have a pattern for every machine, just 2: local vs remote. Everything remote starts with my tmux binding (<C-b> sucks and requires an absurd hand movement, so I use <C-s> because who freezes these days?). With this I still keep all my muscle memory but have a clear signal of "remote vs local" and prevents silly mistakes. > (e.g. recently I was again trying to use flow <https://github.com/neurocyte/flow> and its next-tab and previous-tab shortcuts clash with Ghostty's) I don't think I understand this example. There's only so many keybindings and clashes aren't uncommon. There's only 45 control commands (without shift or f-keys) and less than half are convenient due to reach (<C-6> sucks!). Even fewer when you start thinking about "sane defaults" and unfortunately those are biased by the past, so collisions become more likely. Like I use vim so frequently hit <C-w> while typing and when I'm not on mac I kill browser tabs (probably for the best lol). But the benefit of all CLI programs is the config. There's no "one-size-fits-all" solution, so having configuration is the next best thing. > If I had a terminal that I'm not sure what emulator doesn't meet these goals. Foot is a barebones solution, so that might be good for you. But if the issue is clashing with keybindings then that's an unavoidable problem, though luckily solvable. At least the emulators tend to provide better flexibility in this respect than most programs do.
- osmsucks 1y ago
  > I don't think I understand this example. There's only so many keybindings and clashes aren't uncommon. That's precisely my point! Many terminals these days try to do too much and by default end up capturing keybindings that I want to use for something else. The terminal should allow me to do that something else, not get in the way. A simple terminal wouldn't get in my way and I could insert tmux in the more complex scenarios (even for local sessions). I know I can reconfigure most terminals, but not everything is configurable, plus everyone knows the best tools are the ones that don't require to be reconfigured to be great. :) Thankfully my main editor is Helix and by default it doesn't clash with anything because it's a modal editor where commands are regular keystrokes and not key combinations. > Foot is a barebones solution, so that might be good for you I'm aware of foot, and it works fine, but it doesn't correctly display the fancy icons used by foot (and other programs). For a visual comparison, here's foot on the left, Ghostty on the right: <https://v1.imgpaste.net/images/public/21baee04-b4a5-4693-8a8f-6cecaf7ced89-foot_vs_ghostty.png https://v1.imgpaste.net/images/public/21baee04-b4a5-4693-8a8...>
  - godelski 1y ago
    > The terminal should allow me to do that something else, not get in the way. What terminal gets in the way? If there's a clash you do a remap. I mean I really don't understand. Do you expect the terminal developer to know all the keybindings you currently use and will use in the future? That's a really big ask! Or are you asking that the terminal comes with no keybindings? I can understand that one, but I think it is not going to be popular. For most people that means more configuration. You can disable anything you don't like. > Thankfully my main editor is Helix FWIW I don't have clashes with vim despite vim having both of those > I'm aware of foot What font is foot using? It's been awhile, but I don't remember having this issue with foot. But IIRC on foot, and some other terminals, they don't know to use a nerd font by default or maybe just fail to find or prioritize.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      Do you expect the terminal developer to know all the keybindings you currently use i expect terminal developers to keep keybindings to a minimum. come to think of it, i can't think if a single keybinding that i need from a gui terminal. the only keybindings i need from a terminal are those for tmux, so if a terminal replaces tmux (like wezterm is able to) then those are ok, but otherwise when i run tmux in a gnome terminal then there isn't a single key binding that i need for gnome, except possibly copy and paste.

godelski 1y ago

> I like that I can use tmux locally and remotely and thus have the same interface wherever I do my work The reason I don't do this (even though a trivial config could make this possible) is I want more indications that I'm remote vs local. I'll even change the remote status bar (sometimes theme) so there's more visual indication (an icon helps, but it quickly becomes invisible, just like the hostname). To be clear, I don't have a pattern for every machine, just 2: local vs remote. Everything remote starts with my tmux binding (<C-b> sucks and requires an absurd hand movement, so I use <C-s> because who freezes these days?). With this I still keep all my muscle memory but have a clear signal of "remote vs local" and prevents silly mistakes. > (e.g. recently I was again trying to use flow <https://github.com/neurocyte/flow> and its next-tab and previous-tab shortcuts clash with Ghostty's) I don't think I understand this example. There's only so many keybindings and clashes aren't uncommon. There's only 45 control commands (without shift or f-keys) and less than half are convenient due to reach (<C-6> sucks!). Even fewer when you start thinking about "sane defaults" and unfortunately those are biased by the past, so collisions become more likely. Like I use vim so frequently hit <C-w> while typing and when I'm not on mac I kill browser tabs (probably for the best lol). But the benefit of all CLI programs is the config. There's no "one-size-fits-all" solution, so having configuration is the next best thing. > If I had a terminal that I'm not sure what emulator doesn't meet these goals. Foot is a barebones solution, so that might be good for you. But if the issue is clashing with keybindings then that's an unavoidable problem, though luckily solvable. At least the emulators tend to provide better flexibility in this respect than most programs do.

osmsucks 1y ago
> I don't think I understand this example. There's only so many keybindings and clashes aren't uncommon. That's precisely my point! Many terminals these days try to do too much and by default end up capturing keybindings that I want to use for something else. The terminal should allow me to do that something else, not get in the way. A simple terminal wouldn't get in my way and I could insert tmux in the more complex scenarios (even for local sessions). I know I can reconfigure most terminals, but not everything is configurable, plus everyone knows the best tools are the ones that don't require to be reconfigured to be great. :) Thankfully my main editor is Helix and by default it doesn't clash with anything because it's a modal editor where commands are regular keystrokes and not key combinations. > Foot is a barebones solution, so that might be good for you I'm aware of foot, and it works fine, but it doesn't correctly display the fancy icons used by foot (and other programs). For a visual comparison, here's foot on the left, Ghostty on the right: <https://v1.imgpaste.net/images/public/21baee04-b4a5-4693-8a8f-6cecaf7ced89-foot_vs_ghostty.png https://v1.imgpaste.net/images/public/21baee04-b4a5-4693-8a8...>
- godelski 1y ago
  > The terminal should allow me to do that something else, not get in the way. What terminal gets in the way? If there's a clash you do a remap. I mean I really don't understand. Do you expect the terminal developer to know all the keybindings you currently use and will use in the future? That's a really big ask! Or are you asking that the terminal comes with no keybindings? I can understand that one, but I think it is not going to be popular. For most people that means more configuration. You can disable anything you don't like. > Thankfully my main editor is Helix FWIW I don't have clashes with vim despite vim having both of those > I'm aware of foot What font is foot using? It's been awhile, but I don't remember having this issue with foot. But IIRC on foot, and some other terminals, they don't know to use a nerd font by default or maybe just fail to find or prioritize.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    Do you expect the terminal developer to know all the keybindings you currently use i expect terminal developers to keep keybindings to a minimum. come to think of it, i can't think if a single keybinding that i need from a gui terminal. the only keybindings i need from a terminal are those for tmux, so if a terminal replaces tmux (like wezterm is able to) then those are ok, but otherwise when i run tmux in a gnome terminal then there isn't a single key binding that i need for gnome, except possibly copy and paste.