4 ms·

If only we had some kind of decentralized internet money system.

by koonsolo 1y ago

mananaysiempre 1y ago
Or a legally protected right to transact, ideally with cash-equivalent anonymity. I’d take either one.
- zb3 1y ago
  Both require repealing AML/CFT laws. But maybe that's the way and we should focus on the underlying crime instead..
  - wongarsu 1y ago
    Bitcoin (and most other crypto) unintentionally strikes an interesting balance here. Through the ability to trace blockchain transactions and impose KYC laws on exchanges you can in principle figure out who most money belongs to. That puts you in a position where if A wants to send B money you can't prevent that, but you can go after either A or B. That gives you freedom of payment, but after the fact you can still go after people laundering money or financing terrorism
    - zb3 1y ago
      Until the bank closes your account because it's deemed "high risk" and they're absolutely allowed to do that without explanations.
- anankaie 1y ago
  I'm feeling a little maximalist about this: How about both?
- ranguna 1y ago
  The digital euro will be released in the coming years. It allows for digital offline transfers.
littlecranky67 1y ago
And this is not the first time this happens. The exact same thing happened to PornHub - their premium subscription model got cancelled due to Visa/MC not liking some "questionable" content. Even though PH purged 60% of its content (basically every video uploaded from an unverified account), they are to this day still not accepting CC - probably as they are still banned. Instead they accept Crypto and SEPA payments in the EU. This makes a strong case for Bitcoin - no matter if you consider it a ponzi scheme, or the BTC price to be overinflated, you will not be able to deny it is truly censorship free.
- projektfu 1y ago
  It's a strong case for, perhaps, Algorand[1], but Bitcoin can no longer play this role properly. Transactions are too difficult and slow and the network is too expensive. And Lightning is not a real solution. 1. Specifically a stablecoin running on the network
  - littlecranky67 1y ago
    Why is Lightning not a solution, care to elaborate?
    - projektfu 1y ago
      It's basically unused and difficult for even motivated users to set up. If it was going to work, it would have been successful by now.
  - littlecranky67 1y ago
    Stablecoins are not decentral and would suffer the exact same censorability as Visa/MC. That does not improve the situation.
weberer 1y ago
We have privacy focused crypto systems like Monero, but the EU effectively banned them last year through "money laundering" laws, and they're moving to completely ban them within the next few years. https://www.bitcoinsensus.com/news/altcoins/eu-to-restrict-monero-and-other-privacy-coins-by-2027 https://www.bitcoinsensus.com/news/altcoins/eu-to-restrict-m...
jasonlotito 1y ago
One that is anti-consumer when compared to the CC system.

If only we had some kind of decentralized internet money system.

mananaysiempre 1y ago

Or a legally protected right to transact, ideally with cash-equivalent anonymity. I’d take either one.

zb3 1y ago
Both require repealing AML/CFT laws. But maybe that's the way and we should focus on the underlying crime instead..
- wongarsu 1y ago
  Bitcoin (and most other crypto) unintentionally strikes an interesting balance here. Through the ability to trace blockchain transactions and impose KYC laws on exchanges you can in principle figure out who most money belongs to. That puts you in a position where if A wants to send B money you can't prevent that, but you can go after either A or B. That gives you freedom of payment, but after the fact you can still go after people laundering money or financing terrorism
  - zb3 1y ago
    Until the bank closes your account because it's deemed "high risk" and they're absolutely allowed to do that without explanations.
anankaie 1y ago
I'm feeling a little maximalist about this: How about both?
ranguna 1y ago
The digital euro will be released in the coming years. It allows for digital offline transfers.

littlecranky67 1y ago

And this is not the first time this happens. The exact same thing happened to PornHub - their premium subscription model got cancelled due to Visa/MC not liking some "questionable" content. Even though PH purged 60% of its content (basically every video uploaded from an unverified account), they are to this day still not accepting CC - probably as they are still banned. Instead they accept Crypto and SEPA payments in the EU. This makes a strong case for Bitcoin - no matter if you consider it a ponzi scheme, or the BTC price to be overinflated, you will not be able to deny it is truly censorship free.

projektfu 1y ago
It's a strong case for, perhaps, Algorand[1], but Bitcoin can no longer play this role properly. Transactions are too difficult and slow and the network is too expensive. And Lightning is not a real solution. 1. Specifically a stablecoin running on the network
- littlecranky67 1y ago
  Why is Lightning not a solution, care to elaborate?
  - projektfu 1y ago
    It's basically unused and difficult for even motivated users to set up. If it was going to work, it would have been successful by now.
- littlecranky67 1y ago
  Stablecoins are not decentral and would suffer the exact same censorability as Visa/MC. That does not improve the situation.

weberer 1y ago

We have privacy focused crypto systems like Monero, but the EU effectively banned them last year through "money laundering" laws, and they're moving to completely ban them within the next few years. https://www.bitcoinsensus.com/news/altcoins/eu-to-restrict-monero-and-other-privacy-coins-by-2027 https://www.bitcoinsensus.com/news/altcoins/eu-to-restrict-m...

jasonlotito 1y ago

One that is anti-consumer when compared to the CC system.