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I don’t know about you but where I live the electricity companies definitely offer a “flat rate” for electricity. But those contracts are so much more expensiv

I don’t know about you but where I live the electricity companies definitely offer a “flat rate” for electricity. But those contracts are so much more expensive that virtually no one gets them.

stavros 1y ago
Where do you live that you can get a flat rate for unlimited electricity? I've never heard of this (I live in Greece).
- sensanaty 1y ago
  Dunno if it counts because it's not unlimited usage for a flat rate, but in the Netherlands a lot of utilities like water, gas and electricity are billed at the same flat rate every month, then once a year they do a calculation and you get money back (or have to pay more if your usage was higher) based on actual usage. I can't see any situation where true unlimited usage for a flat rate, even a wildly expensive and uneconomical one, would make any sense because as often happens you'd basically be incentivizing people to waste as much gas, electricity and water as they possibly can to "get their money's worth" or whatever, and we should be encouraging the exact opposite for those 3 things.
  - stavros 1y ago
    I agree with you, that's why I can't believe it exists anywhere. What you mention is basically to reduce the costs of counting, and is still usage-based metering, just with a reasonable guess to make payment more frequent. Power in Greece works the same way, except you (are supposed to) get the guess one month and the count the next (and pay the difference). In practice, they count less often than that.
    - semi-extrinsic 1y ago
      Here in Norway, especially 10-20 years ago but still not uncommon today, you will find flats for rent with electricity included in the monthly price. Student housing especially. We own an old 170 sq.m. semi-detached house, and the electricity bill for June was 20 euros. That's with all heating & hot water coming from electricity (heat pumps) and owning an EV that we charge at home.
      - physicsguy 1y ago
        That's the same for the UK but ultimately the cost is absorbed by someone, just not the tenant.
    - ncruces 1y ago
      > What you mention is basically to reduce the costs of counting, and is still usage-based metering, just with a reasonable guess to make payment more frequent. That's not the motive where I live. There's basically 2 reasons: (1) customers (esp. those, often less well off, that resort to “money earned, money spent”) like the predictability of it; and (2) depending on the season spending changes significantly (heating, cooling), whereas salaries don't. Usually the corrective amount is also paid out over a period of months if it exceeds X% of one month's spend.
  - physicsguy 1y ago
    Same in the UK, it's mostly to spread out the seasonal cost. Although here, if people get into debt they can be forced onto pre-payment meters where that's not an option, and the unit price is also higher. There's a lot of controversy about this.
- mathgeek 1y ago
  It existed when I lived in Pennsylvania, but it always had a “if you exceed this threshold consistently we will move you to a metered plan” conditional. More a way to plan your budget than truly unlimited.
  - marcus_holmes 1y ago
    Yeah, that's not unlimited. Useful data point, though. Potentially a solution for the AI companies?
FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
I work in heavy industrial manufacturing and we have flat rate contracts. In fact, we MUST use a minimum amount or we get billed a penalty. In manufacturing, everything is about consistency.
- marcus_holmes 1y ago
  Interesting. Is there an upper limit too?

I don’t know about you but where I live the electricity companies definitely offer a “flat rate” for electricity. But those contracts are so much more expensive that virtually no one gets them.

stavros 1y ago

Where do you live that you can get a flat rate for unlimited electricity? I've never heard of this (I live in Greece).

sensanaty 1y ago
Dunno if it counts because it's not unlimited usage for a flat rate, but in the Netherlands a lot of utilities like water, gas and electricity are billed at the same flat rate every month, then once a year they do a calculation and you get money back (or have to pay more if your usage was higher) based on actual usage. I can't see any situation where true unlimited usage for a flat rate, even a wildly expensive and uneconomical one, would make any sense because as often happens you'd basically be incentivizing people to waste as much gas, electricity and water as they possibly can to "get their money's worth" or whatever, and we should be encouraging the exact opposite for those 3 things.
- stavros 1y ago
  I agree with you, that's why I can't believe it exists anywhere. What you mention is basically to reduce the costs of counting, and is still usage-based metering, just with a reasonable guess to make payment more frequent. Power in Greece works the same way, except you (are supposed to) get the guess one month and the count the next (and pay the difference). In practice, they count less often than that.
  - semi-extrinsic 1y ago
    Here in Norway, especially 10-20 years ago but still not uncommon today, you will find flats for rent with electricity included in the monthly price. Student housing especially. We own an old 170 sq.m. semi-detached house, and the electricity bill for June was 20 euros. That's with all heating & hot water coming from electricity (heat pumps) and owning an EV that we charge at home.
    - physicsguy 1y ago
      That's the same for the UK but ultimately the cost is absorbed by someone, just not the tenant.
  - ncruces 1y ago
    > What you mention is basically to reduce the costs of counting, and is still usage-based metering, just with a reasonable guess to make payment more frequent. That's not the motive where I live. There's basically 2 reasons: (1) customers (esp. those, often less well off, that resort to “money earned, money spent”) like the predictability of it; and (2) depending on the season spending changes significantly (heating, cooling), whereas salaries don't. Usually the corrective amount is also paid out over a period of months if it exceeds X% of one month's spend.
- physicsguy 1y ago
  Same in the UK, it's mostly to spread out the seasonal cost. Although here, if people get into debt they can be forced onto pre-payment meters where that's not an option, and the unit price is also higher. There's a lot of controversy about this.
mathgeek 1y ago
It existed when I lived in Pennsylvania, but it always had a “if you exceed this threshold consistently we will move you to a metered plan” conditional. More a way to plan your budget than truly unlimited.
- marcus_holmes 1y ago
  Yeah, that's not unlimited. Useful data point, though. Potentially a solution for the AI companies?

FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago

I work in heavy industrial manufacturing and we have flat rate contracts. In fact, we MUST use a minimum amount or we get billed a penalty. In manufacturing, everything is about consistency.

marcus_holmes 1y ago
Interesting. Is there an upper limit too?