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> Decades of worsening conditions for the commoner is Ron Wyden's idea of a booming economy. Democrats are useful idiots. I can't anymore, folks. Republicans p

> Decades of worsening conditions for the commoner is Ron Wyden's idea of a booming economy. Democrats are useful idiots. I can't anymore, folks. Republicans passed the largest tax cuts for billionaires, increased the deficit by trillions, and kicked millions of people of medicaid. Meanwhile, Trump is out there creating the most regressive tax system via tariffs we've ever seen which affect the poorest the most. Yet Democrats are the useful idiots. Incredible.

WalterBright 1y ago
> Republicans passed the largest tax cuts for billionaires There were no tax cuts for billionaires in the BBB. (Not increasing the tax is not a "cut".)
- kyralis 1y ago
  It absolutely is when the status quo would have increased taxes. That may not be a cut of current taxes, but in the longer timeframe it is absolutely a tax cut.
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    Framing it as not increasing taxes being a cut is misleading. It's just as disingenuous as scaling back a proposed budget increase and calling it a "cut". The FTC wouldn't let businesses get away with such language, why should the government get a pass?
    - tired-turtle 1y ago
      If a bill due at the end of the month is forgiven on the 25th, were expenses cut? What if the debt is forgiven on the 2nd of the next month? I’d wager most people would consider those scenario cuts. However, in your framework, the verbiage is different despite a shared outcome.
      - WalterBright 1y ago
        Bills are not due in advance. The analogy is inapt. The taxes were cut 8 years ago. There aren't further "cuts". Billionare tax rates have been the same for the last 8 years, and will continue at the same rate at least into next year.
        wat10000 1y ago
        Weren’t those cuts set to expire?
        amanaplanacanal 1y ago
        Yes. They were temporary cuts so that they could claim they didn't raise the deficit. Now they are claiming that everybody knew they were going to be permanent. So they either raised the deficit in that cut, or the current one. It's the same party, claiming they didn't raise the deficit either time. And Americans put up with this shit.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - kyralis 1y ago
      No. The total tax bill over the next five years was X, given the current laws. Then a bill was passed that reduced that total tax bill over the next five years. This is a tax cut. It's a little absurd to try to claim otherwise.
      - WalterBright 1y ago
        Failing to increase taxes is not a tax cut.
        kyralis 1y ago
        This is the same as saying that a tax cut with an expiration date should be treated as if it were permanent. Are you not aware that these things are different? That there is a difference between an adjustment to a proposed budget and a budget that has been enshrined in law? What's the magical time horizon that changes this? If I change the taxes due for 2026, is that a tax cut? How about 2027? Where's the line between a change in law that is or is not a tax cut with this philosophy? If you want consistency, a change in law that adjusts the tax burden downward from what the burden would be without the change in law is a tax cut. Therefore, a change in the law that makes previously temporary reduced tax levels into permanent reduced tax levels is a tax cut.
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  They made a temporary cut permanent. Come on, you already know this. And you know why.
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    I understand why some people try to frame not raising taxes as a tax cut.
reliabilityguy 1y ago
> Trump is out there creating the most regressive tax system via tariffs Tariffs incentivize domestic production. See the case of chicken tax and pickup trucks. While we do pay for tariffs now, later down the road we should not as more things would be made domestically. If you don’t do tariffs, there is no way to force producers to onshore.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Tariffs incentivize domestic production Stable, long term tariffs. We’re seeing historic falls in manufacturing employment for a reason.
  - reliabilityguy 1y ago
    > Stable, long term tariffs. Well, you have to start somewhere. > We’re seeing historic falls in manufacturing employment for a reason. In your opinion, what is this reason?
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > you have to start somewhere There has been no start. You don’t build a factory because the President announced a tariff that he is also negotiating a trade deal around. > what is this reason? I’m remodelling my deck. I had orders into a steel mill in Utah. Tariffs mean their steel inputs are pricer than competitors in Vietnam. So I switched the order. And I paid with a cheque—if I paid cash I could skip taxes altogether. That wasn’t a thing six months ago. Meanwhile, software and services aren’t tariffed. Just goods. Guess whose cost of capital has sunk.
      - reliabilityguy 1y ago
        > There has been no start. You don’t build a factory because the President announced a tariff that he is also negotiating a trade deal around. You absolutely do once the math of tariffs makes your manufacturing abroad not competitive with onshored one. Will it apply for all categories of products? Probably not. However, it will definitely apply for many. I am not sure I understood your reply about the reasons.
bennyHHW 1y ago
[flagged]

WalterBright 1y ago

> Republicans passed the largest tax cuts for billionaires There were no tax cuts for billionaires in the BBB. (Not increasing the tax is not a "cut".)

kyralis 1y ago
It absolutely is when the status quo would have increased taxes. That may not be a cut of current taxes, but in the longer timeframe it is absolutely a tax cut.
- WalterBright 1y ago
  Framing it as not increasing taxes being a cut is misleading. It's just as disingenuous as scaling back a proposed budget increase and calling it a "cut". The FTC wouldn't let businesses get away with such language, why should the government get a pass?
  - tired-turtle 1y ago
    If a bill due at the end of the month is forgiven on the 25th, were expenses cut? What if the debt is forgiven on the 2nd of the next month? I’d wager most people would consider those scenario cuts. However, in your framework, the verbiage is different despite a shared outcome.
    - WalterBright 1y ago
      Bills are not due in advance. The analogy is inapt. The taxes were cut 8 years ago. There aren't further "cuts". Billionare tax rates have been the same for the last 8 years, and will continue at the same rate at least into next year.
      - wat10000 1y ago
        Weren’t those cuts set to expire?
        amanaplanacanal 1y ago
        Yes. They were temporary cuts so that they could claim they didn't raise the deficit. Now they are claiming that everybody knew they were going to be permanent. So they either raised the deficit in that cut, or the current one. It's the same party, claiming they didn't raise the deficit either time. And Americans put up with this shit.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - kyralis 1y ago
    No. The total tax bill over the next five years was X, given the current laws. Then a bill was passed that reduced that total tax bill over the next five years. This is a tax cut. It's a little absurd to try to claim otherwise.
    - WalterBright 1y ago
      Failing to increase taxes is not a tax cut.
      - kyralis 1y ago
        This is the same as saying that a tax cut with an expiration date should be treated as if it were permanent. Are you not aware that these things are different? That there is a difference between an adjustment to a proposed budget and a budget that has been enshrined in law? What's the magical time horizon that changes this? If I change the taxes due for 2026, is that a tax cut? How about 2027? Where's the line between a change in law that is or is not a tax cut with this philosophy? If you want consistency, a change in law that adjusts the tax burden downward from what the burden would be without the change in law is a tax cut. Therefore, a change in the law that makes previously temporary reduced tax levels into permanent reduced tax levels is a tax cut.
amanaplanacanal 1y ago
They made a temporary cut permanent. Come on, you already know this. And you know why.
- WalterBright 1y ago
  I understand why some people try to frame not raising taxes as a tax cut.

reliabilityguy 1y ago

> Trump is out there creating the most regressive tax system via tariffs Tariffs incentivize domestic production. See the case of chicken tax and pickup trucks. While we do pay for tariffs now, later down the road we should not as more things would be made domestically. If you don’t do tariffs, there is no way to force producers to onshore.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Tariffs incentivize domestic production Stable, long term tariffs. We’re seeing historic falls in manufacturing employment for a reason.
- reliabilityguy 1y ago
  > Stable, long term tariffs. Well, you have to start somewhere. > We’re seeing historic falls in manufacturing employment for a reason. In your opinion, what is this reason?
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > you have to start somewhere There has been no start. You don’t build a factory because the President announced a tariff that he is also negotiating a trade deal around. > what is this reason? I’m remodelling my deck. I had orders into a steel mill in Utah. Tariffs mean their steel inputs are pricer than competitors in Vietnam. So I switched the order. And I paid with a cheque—if I paid cash I could skip taxes altogether. That wasn’t a thing six months ago. Meanwhile, software and services aren’t tariffed. Just goods. Guess whose cost of capital has sunk.
    - reliabilityguy 1y ago
      > There has been no start. You don’t build a factory because the President announced a tariff that he is also negotiating a trade deal around. You absolutely do once the math of tariffs makes your manufacturing abroad not competitive with onshored one. Will it apply for all categories of products? Probably not. However, it will definitely apply for many. I am not sure I understood your reply about the reasons.

bennyHHW 1y ago

[flagged]