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> The biggest example of this for me is that in all these reflections from Matthew I don't see any recognition that maybe what's needed is not more delivering b

> The biggest example of this for me is that in all these reflections from Matthew I don't see any recognition that maybe what's needed is not more delivering but less promising. The line you quote from Matrix Live then directly contradicts this, though: "We have basically over-promised and then failed to deliver in a fast enough manner." Similarly, > But the attitude I always see is "well we're going to move on and get through this and excelsior and so on", and never "We are going to slow down and make sure everything is fully working before we start touting it as a big improvement". The reason that threads & spaces are taking a while to ship in EX is literally because we have slowed down, and made sure everything is fully working before we ship it. Meanwhile, we killed everything we were working on apart from Element Server Suite (Synapse), Element Web, Element X and Element Call - focusing on moving slowly and getting it right rather than shipping a tonne of experiments. So yes, in the past this was definitely a massive failure mode. But it should be obvious that precisely the stepchange that you're asking for has already happened.

BrenBarn 1y ago
That line I quoted acknowledges that the problem was overpromising and underdelivering, but doesn't (that I can see) acknowledge that the solution is specifically to promise less rather than deliver more. In particular the word "fast" there is a little worrisome to me. > The reason that threads & spaces are taking a while to ship in EX is literally because we have slowed down, and made sure everything is fully working before we ship it. But you already did ship it. And my perception is that what you're doing now is again rushing to catch up with the overpromises. My question is what are you going to do going forward to make sure that things that aren't ready never ship in the first place --- and that there are no more blog posts or the like about how amazing the next thing is (whatever that may be) until it has everything it actually needs to be amazing. Anything that has to do with fixing what you already shipped is still on the delivery side. My question is about what are the processes on the promise side to ensure that unrealistic promises are not made in the first place. I appreciate your engaging with me here and I want you to know that I appreciate what Matrix is trying to be. I'm still using Matrix in the same limited way I've been using it for a few years now. I'd love to be able to use it for more purposes. But there is no amount of fixes to already-released things that can ever convince me to do that. The only thing that will convince me is when the "next thing" (or next several things, really) that rolls out is actually everything it was cracked up to be, instead of having major problems that require damage control after it's been hyped up as a groundbreaking step forward.
- cindyllm 1y ago
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BrenBarn 1y ago

That line I quoted acknowledges that the problem was overpromising and underdelivering, but doesn't (that I can see) acknowledge that the solution is specifically to promise less rather than deliver more. In particular the word "fast" there is a little worrisome to me. > The reason that threads & spaces are taking a while to ship in EX is literally because we have slowed down, and made sure everything is fully working before we ship it. But you already did ship it. And my perception is that what you're doing now is again rushing to catch up with the overpromises. My question is what are you going to do going forward to make sure that things that aren't ready never ship in the first place --- and that there are no more blog posts or the like about how amazing the next thing is (whatever that may be) until it has everything it actually needs to be amazing. Anything that has to do with fixing what you already shipped is still on the delivery side. My question is about what are the processes on the promise side to ensure that unrealistic promises are not made in the first place. I appreciate your engaging with me here and I want you to know that I appreciate what Matrix is trying to be. I'm still using Matrix in the same limited way I've been using it for a few years now. I'd love to be able to use it for more purposes. But there is no amount of fixes to already-released things that can ever convince me to do that. The only thing that will convince me is when the "next thing" (or next several things, really) that rolls out is actually everything it was cracked up to be, instead of having major problems that require damage control after it's been hyped up as a groundbreaking step forward.

cindyllm 1y ago
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