4 ms·

> I wonder, after 500 years, after 1000 years of industrialization, what will be left of Earth? In the last 150 years we went from almost zero protected areas

> I wonder, after 500 years, after 1000 years of industrialization, what will be left of Earth? In the last 150 years we went from almost zero protected areas to 26 million sq km of nature preserve, or a fifth of the Earth’s total landmass (excluding Antarctica, which is also protected). Out of the ~106 million sq km of habitable land, half of it is unprotected forest (37%) and shrubland. Only about a third of that forest is used for lumber so there’s room to protect about thrice as much as is already protected. We have to remain vigilant but the global zeitgeist is very much on the side of preserving more nature rather than less. There will be more hickups but I wouldn’t be surprised if we double the amount of protected land in the next 100 years.

parineum 1y ago
It's funny that a movement can be so successful and not just underestimate it's success but completely misunderstood the directionality of the trend.
CharlesW 1y ago
It was nice while it lasted, but the "shining city upon a hill" era is dead and gone. There's a Project 2025 effort to lift protections for nearly 60 million acres, and that's surely just the beginning unless the U.S. un-loses its mind. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/white-house-set-to-roll-back-protections-for-nearly-60-million-acres-of-national-forests https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/white-house-set-to-roll-ba...
- valianteffort 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - timeon 1y ago
    Can you be more specific? This sounds generic dismissive. EDIT: so after quick googling this [1] wikipedia page looks completely different than wiki pages of 'conspiracy theories' [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
  - CharlesW 1y ago
    Please don't push the conspiracy theory that "Project 2025 is a conspiracy theory". It's incredibly easy to validate that Project 2025 is a real thing, that it's policy, and that it is well underway. https://www.project2025.observer/en https://www.project2025.observer/en
  - vkou 1y ago
    Project 2025 is a roadmap that is actively being executed, not a 'theory'. And given that it's not secret, it's not a conspiracy. All of its worst parts are being done right there in the open, and you're holding a fig leaf in front of it. Why are you doing that?
intended 1y ago
This is reading the past and forgetting the forces active since WW2 and the 1960s. We do NOT live in those times, and the edifices propped up and successful in Europe and America, well and truly wish to undermine those protections. It takes resources and it takes a middle class / working class for the collective will to matter. When those groups are under resourced, then it’s a question on whether nature appeals to some coterie of elites.
- throwup238 1y ago
  I was just talking about protected land mass. Since the 1990s the focus has shifted to protecting marine environments with 28 million sq km of ocean protected since then. It’s only 7% of the ocean for the moment but its only been a few decades.
  - intended 1y ago
    I am against this reading of hopefulness. It creates a narrative of momentum, which is necessary to not be overwhelmed by the situations we face, but it’s no longer viable to ignore it. As just one sign - Academics in environmental science and conversation have PTSD, because of how hopeless things are. In that same 150 year period, more species have been wiped out by man than in history. As a species we are a force of nature. I can find common ground that some of us are changing and that efforts are being made. I disagree that it is inevitable- it’s hard won and must continue to be fight for
- throwawaymaths 1y ago
  > some coterie of elites. hate to break it to you but over the span of history, elites have been way better at natural preservation than the middle and working classes.
  - intended 1y ago
    The elites have had power for the largest span of our history. Correlation here is not causation. By that same criteria, elites have been responsible for the grandest acts of destruction and waste as well. But I suppose someone may want to leave preservation efforts up to random chance and inheritance. Subjective preferences can’t be debated after all.
thrance 1y ago
I just don't think "protected surface" is a very meaningful metric when it comes to ecology. In those same 150 years, we (humans) have been responsible for the extinction of 83% of wild mammal and 50% of plants [1]. The global zeitgeist is very much not on the side of preservation, seeing how much irreversible damage has already been done, and how nothing is tried to prevent more from being done. Let's not even talk of global warming, ocean acidification, ecosystem collapse... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-race-just-001-of-all-life-but-has-destroyed-over-80-of-wild-mammals-study https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-ra...

parineum 1y ago

It's funny that a movement can be so successful and not just underestimate it's success but completely misunderstood the directionality of the trend.

CharlesW 1y ago

It was nice while it lasted, but the "shining city upon a hill" era is dead and gone. There's a Project 2025 effort to lift protections for nearly 60 million acres, and that's surely just the beginning unless the U.S. un-loses its mind. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/white-house-set-to-roll-back-protections-for-nearly-60-million-acres-of-national-forests https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/white-house-set-to-roll-ba...

valianteffort 1y ago
[flagged]
- timeon 1y ago
  Can you be more specific? This sounds generic dismissive. EDIT: so after quick googling this [1] wikipedia page looks completely different than wiki pages of 'conspiracy theories' [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
- CharlesW 1y ago
  Please don't push the conspiracy theory that "Project 2025 is a conspiracy theory". It's incredibly easy to validate that Project 2025 is a real thing, that it's policy, and that it is well underway. https://www.project2025.observer/en https://www.project2025.observer/en
- vkou 1y ago
  Project 2025 is a roadmap that is actively being executed, not a 'theory'. And given that it's not secret, it's not a conspiracy. All of its worst parts are being done right there in the open, and you're holding a fig leaf in front of it. Why are you doing that?

intended 1y ago

This is reading the past and forgetting the forces active since WW2 and the 1960s. We do NOT live in those times, and the edifices propped up and successful in Europe and America, well and truly wish to undermine those protections. It takes resources and it takes a middle class / working class for the collective will to matter. When those groups are under resourced, then it’s a question on whether nature appeals to some coterie of elites.

throwup238 1y ago
I was just talking about protected land mass. Since the 1990s the focus has shifted to protecting marine environments with 28 million sq km of ocean protected since then. It’s only 7% of the ocean for the moment but its only been a few decades.
- intended 1y ago
  I am against this reading of hopefulness. It creates a narrative of momentum, which is necessary to not be overwhelmed by the situations we face, but it’s no longer viable to ignore it. As just one sign - Academics in environmental science and conversation have PTSD, because of how hopeless things are. In that same 150 year period, more species have been wiped out by man than in history. As a species we are a force of nature. I can find common ground that some of us are changing and that efforts are being made. I disagree that it is inevitable- it’s hard won and must continue to be fight for
throwawaymaths 1y ago
> some coterie of elites. hate to break it to you but over the span of history, elites have been way better at natural preservation than the middle and working classes.
- intended 1y ago
  The elites have had power for the largest span of our history. Correlation here is not causation. By that same criteria, elites have been responsible for the grandest acts of destruction and waste as well. But I suppose someone may want to leave preservation efforts up to random chance and inheritance. Subjective preferences can’t be debated after all.

thrance 1y ago

I just don't think "protected surface" is a very meaningful metric when it comes to ecology. In those same 150 years, we (humans) have been responsible for the extinction of 83% of wild mammal and 50% of plants [1]. The global zeitgeist is very much not on the side of preservation, seeing how much irreversible damage has already been done, and how nothing is tried to prevent more from being done. Let's not even talk of global warming, ocean acidification, ecosystem collapse... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-race-just-001-of-all-life-but-has-destroyed-over-80-of-wild-mammals-study https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-ra...