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I'm a regular in the Yosemite rock climbing scene, and Aramark is a universally despised entity for many reasons (gross negligence, outright lies, rampant negle

I'm a regular in the Yosemite rock climbing scene, and Aramark is a universally despised entity for many reasons (gross negligence, outright lies, rampant neglect). One of their executives recently lost his job for hitting golf balls into Ahwahnee Meadows. However, until people would rather camp than stay at the $600/night hotel, and cook over a campfire rather than eat overpriced food, there will always be a lucrative opportunity in Yosemite Valley that is only available to the most politically-connected companies.

SoftTalker 1y ago
Why would Aramark try any harder, they have no competition.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jonah 1y ago
  They do. Xanterra. I have family who worked for them at Yellowstone, Crater Lake, and Glacier NP. (They also have the concession at the Grand Canyon and Death Valley among others.) Seemed like a fairly good company from what little I gathered.
- stenius 1y ago
  There is competition, they took over the contract from Deleware North in 2014 IIRC.
- intended 1y ago
  Competition improves consumer welfare if the competition is on features that improve consumer welfare. Without referees, competition can simply be on lowering costs and providing cheaper service. If demand is in-elastic (there’s only one Yosemite) then simply invoking competition isn’t going to be a solution. Without referees with teeth, the market can easily optimize for profit without giving a damn about anything else.
thrance 1y ago
> However, until people would rather camp than stay at the $600/night hotel, and cook over a campfire rather than eat overpriced food, there will always be a lucrative opportunity in Yosemite Valley that is only available to the most politically-connected companies. Blaming "people" accomplishes nothing.
- ghaff 1y ago
  Well, and no idea what it's like these days given ownership changes and time generally, but it used to be a very nice--albeit expensive--lodge, at least in the public areas including dining room.
harmmonica 1y ago
When the north rim lodge recently burned down at the Grand Canyon my reaction was "how could they not deploy resources fast enough to save it?," followed by "who stands to gain from it burning down?" So I learn Aramark is/was the manager of the lodge. Fast forward a year and you'll hear about a joint venture between Aramark, someone high up in the current administration, and (as an example) Aman announcing Aman North Rim. That's obviously conspiracy-level thinking and totally untrue, but given the attempt to sell public lands in the BBB, and the material staffing cuts at the park service (and more broadly), it's really easy to believe that these types of efforts will lead to cordoning off these spaces for private profit ("Yosemite's hundreds of thousands of acres, we're only taking away 20 for the hotel, no biggie!"). Gotta remain vigilant or I think that's where all of this ends up. Note that the prices for the lodge at the north rim were pretty expensive already so not saying that hasn't already somewhat been the case, but it's not (or was not) physically off limits to the public or only reserved for the richest of the rich and that's where I fear this is headed.
whyenot 1y ago
> However, until people would rather camp than stay at the $600/night hotel, and cook over a campfire rather than eat overpriced food I think this borders on "gatekeeping." There are other lodging options in Yosemite Valley which are much less expensive than the Ahwahnee. Yosemite belongs to the American people, and everyone should have a chance to enjoy it, not only those who want to sleep in a tent and cook on a fire. There has been paid lodging in the valley since before Yosemite was a park. Food and lodging in the valley are expensive. The shuttle bus system is currently a joke. Aramark, Delaware North, and YP&CC (especially in the malaise years 1970-1993) have not always been good stewards, but in spite of that, the park is a national treasure that all should have a chance to enjoy, not just those in the "rock climbing scene" who want to stay at Camp 4 and rough it. Aramark's contract should be cancelled. It happened at Crater Lake, and the NPS would have justification to do it in Yosemite, but the last two transitions between concessioners was pretty bad; there is good reason for the NPS to be cautious. If there was the capacity for better NPS oversight, the best move would probably be to break up the contract into smaller pieces and have more than one main concessioner. The Ansel Adams Gallery and Yosemite Mountaineering School are already under different contracts and there is precedent from other national parks (for example Glacier).
- stickfigure 1y ago
  I think you're right that there needs to be actual competition between park services, but I am doubtful it will make that much of a difference. The public appetite for attendance absolutely dwarfs the capacity of the park. To meet demand you'd have to build a whole city. I've given up on Yosemite. There are lots of other places to go in California (and beyond). Although they are starting to get crowded too...
  - whyenot 1y ago
    You may be right, but even if the concessioners aren’t great, the valley can still be a wonderful, quiet, peaceful place to be. Especially in late spring when the dogwoods are in full bloom, the waterfalls are full, and the summer crowds haven’t arrived yet. After Labor Day is also nice. Summer crowds aren’t fun, but I do feel like there is another way of looking at it: so many people going outside and enjoying nature instead of looking at the world through their phones. There was a time pre-Covid when attendance and interest in national parks and state parks was kind of on the wane, and it’s nice that so many people want to come and enjoy these places.

SoftTalker 1y ago

Why would Aramark try any harder, they have no competition.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jonah 1y ago
They do. Xanterra. I have family who worked for them at Yellowstone, Crater Lake, and Glacier NP. (They also have the concession at the Grand Canyon and Death Valley among others.) Seemed like a fairly good company from what little I gathered.
stenius 1y ago
There is competition, they took over the contract from Deleware North in 2014 IIRC.
intended 1y ago
Competition improves consumer welfare if the competition is on features that improve consumer welfare. Without referees, competition can simply be on lowering costs and providing cheaper service. If demand is in-elastic (there’s only one Yosemite) then simply invoking competition isn’t going to be a solution. Without referees with teeth, the market can easily optimize for profit without giving a damn about anything else.

thrance 1y ago

> However, until people would rather camp than stay at the $600/night hotel, and cook over a campfire rather than eat overpriced food, there will always be a lucrative opportunity in Yosemite Valley that is only available to the most politically-connected companies. Blaming "people" accomplishes nothing.

ghaff 1y ago
Well, and no idea what it's like these days given ownership changes and time generally, but it used to be a very nice--albeit expensive--lodge, at least in the public areas including dining room.

harmmonica 1y ago

When the north rim lodge recently burned down at the Grand Canyon my reaction was "how could they not deploy resources fast enough to save it?," followed by "who stands to gain from it burning down?" So I learn Aramark is/was the manager of the lodge. Fast forward a year and you'll hear about a joint venture between Aramark, someone high up in the current administration, and (as an example) Aman announcing Aman North Rim. That's obviously conspiracy-level thinking and totally untrue, but given the attempt to sell public lands in the BBB, and the material staffing cuts at the park service (and more broadly), it's really easy to believe that these types of efforts will lead to cordoning off these spaces for private profit ("Yosemite's hundreds of thousands of acres, we're only taking away 20 for the hotel, no biggie!"). Gotta remain vigilant or I think that's where all of this ends up. Note that the prices for the lodge at the north rim were pretty expensive already so not saying that hasn't already somewhat been the case, but it's not (or was not) physically off limits to the public or only reserved for the richest of the rich and that's where I fear this is headed.

whyenot 1y ago

> However, until people would rather camp than stay at the $600/night hotel, and cook over a campfire rather than eat overpriced food I think this borders on "gatekeeping." There are other lodging options in Yosemite Valley which are much less expensive than the Ahwahnee. Yosemite belongs to the American people, and everyone should have a chance to enjoy it, not only those who want to sleep in a tent and cook on a fire. There has been paid lodging in the valley since before Yosemite was a park. Food and lodging in the valley are expensive. The shuttle bus system is currently a joke. Aramark, Delaware North, and YP&CC (especially in the malaise years 1970-1993) have not always been good stewards, but in spite of that, the park is a national treasure that all should have a chance to enjoy, not just those in the "rock climbing scene" who want to stay at Camp 4 and rough it. Aramark's contract should be cancelled. It happened at Crater Lake, and the NPS would have justification to do it in Yosemite, but the last two transitions between concessioners was pretty bad; there is good reason for the NPS to be cautious. If there was the capacity for better NPS oversight, the best move would probably be to break up the contract into smaller pieces and have more than one main concessioner. The Ansel Adams Gallery and Yosemite Mountaineering School are already under different contracts and there is precedent from other national parks (for example Glacier).

stickfigure 1y ago
I think you're right that there needs to be actual competition between park services, but I am doubtful it will make that much of a difference. The public appetite for attendance absolutely dwarfs the capacity of the park. To meet demand you'd have to build a whole city. I've given up on Yosemite. There are lots of other places to go in California (and beyond). Although they are starting to get crowded too...
- whyenot 1y ago
  You may be right, but even if the concessioners aren’t great, the valley can still be a wonderful, quiet, peaceful place to be. Especially in late spring when the dogwoods are in full bloom, the waterfalls are full, and the summer crowds haven’t arrived yet. After Labor Day is also nice. Summer crowds aren’t fun, but I do feel like there is another way of looking at it: so many people going outside and enjoying nature instead of looking at the world through their phones. There was a time pre-Covid when attendance and interest in national parks and state parks was kind of on the wane, and it’s nice that so many people want to come and enjoy these places.