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> It is a known fact that the vast majority of truck owners rarely ever use the truck bed. I'm not here to defend brodozers, but you cannot possibly prove this

> It is a known fact that the vast majority of truck owners rarely ever use the truck bed. I'm not here to defend brodozers, but you cannot possibly prove this statement. That a _pickup truck_ isn't hauling the majority of the time it is on the road is not some new thing. But of course there are more pickup trucks on the road than ever, so if you argument is aggregate time of all pickup trucks not doing truck things is the highest its ever been is certainly true, but you'd probably have to go back to before the 80s for that number to actually be meaningfully different per truck.

jakelazaroff 1y ago
Not sure what you mean by "prove this statement" but answering questions like this is exactly why organizations do consumer research. To wit [1]: > According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
- Aurornis 1y ago
  The hauling figure is useless without specifying what they mean. Usually these “studies” redefine hauling to mean something specific like hauling loose dirt or something extremely heavy. If you can read a quote claiming 2/3 of truck owners don’t “put something in the bed” more than once a year then and not realize that something is wrong with these statistics then you’re missing something.
  - jakelazaroff 1y ago
    The question is not whether they "put something in the bed" — it's whether they use the bed in such a way that the trunk or back seat of a smaller vehicle would be unsuitable.
    - mlyle 1y ago
      The Telo appeals to me. I've resisted getting a truck because I like a smaller vehicle and don't want to have undue impact and because I've listened to arguments like this before. But I was offroad last weekend. I move sheets of plywood a couple of times per year and either need to beg my wife to help or sit around waiting at Home Depot for the truck to be available. I have stuff to move for robotics comps that I'm always barely able to get there by cramming it in my car + begging a couple of parents to help out. Dealing with the bike rack is hard. Ordering things like Ikea furniture for delivery is expensive, latent, and not exactly low impact iself. Yah, 90% of the time I need a car, but 10% of the time I need a little more and there's enough friction around making it work that I would pull the trigger on something like this. On the other hand I don't think I could say "frequently" to any of those questions.
      - jakelazaroff 1y ago
        Two thoughts here: 1. An ideal society would be structured such that you wouldn't need to buy a truck you use as a car 90% of the time. But that society doesn't exist here, and you shouldn't feel guilty about living by incentives you didn't create. Maybe you do need a truck! 2. But we're not talking about people who compromise to make 10% of their trips more convenient; we're talking about people who never use their truck for truck things. A car would be better choice for them 100% of the time, yet they still drive a truck.
        mlyle 1y ago
        One of my points was re: #2: I am not sure how I would answer on that survey. It really depends on fine details of how the questions were worded. For sure towing would be "rarely". But "personal hauling"? I am not sure.
Aurornis 1y ago
There’s a quote from some consulting firm that goes around claiming 2/3 of truck drivers don’t “put something in the bed” more than once a year. It’s a laughable claim for anyone who thinks about it for more than a second. The way they usually get to these numbers is by redefining what “hauling a load” means to be something extremely heavy or for loose fill materials. So if someone routinely hauls a couple mountain bikes in the bed of their truck or gets a few 2x4s from the lumber yard it wouldn’t count.
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  > So if someone routinely hauls a couple mountain bikes in the bed of their truck or gets a few 2x4s from the lumber yard it wouldn’t count. Even if that’s the case, the truck owners doing this probably don’t need a full size truck. A 90s-era small truck or maybe even a kei truck would suffice, and yet more often than not the trucks in question are the likes of F-150s.
  - wyre 1y ago
    Agreed, unfortunately small trucks are increasingly harder and harder to find. A 90s truck also won’t have the amenities that a modern truck has. I think if they are just hauling mountain bikes, they could get a small hitch installed and purchase a high-quality bike rack. A roof rack can carry 2x4s very well.
    - scott_w 1y ago
      Or do what I do and drive an MPV, which are bloody excellent for getting my TT bike in with its excessively angled aero bars!
- ricardobeat 1y ago
  The company in question has been doing their survey for two decades. It’s a private data set, but has been reported on by multiple serious news outlets which will have their own data scientists looking over the data, e.g. Axios: https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history You can also verify the data is coming from real drivers, by searching for “New Vehicle Experience Study” and seeing all the posts from users who receive the survey and think it’s some kind of scam.

jakelazaroff 1y ago

Not sure what you mean by "prove this statement" but answering questions like this is exactly why organizations do consumer research. To wit [1]: > According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...

Aurornis 1y ago
The hauling figure is useless without specifying what they mean. Usually these “studies” redefine hauling to mean something specific like hauling loose dirt or something extremely heavy. If you can read a quote claiming 2/3 of truck owners don’t “put something in the bed” more than once a year then and not realize that something is wrong with these statistics then you’re missing something.
- jakelazaroff 1y ago
  The question is not whether they "put something in the bed" — it's whether they use the bed in such a way that the trunk or back seat of a smaller vehicle would be unsuitable.
  - mlyle 1y ago
    The Telo appeals to me. I've resisted getting a truck because I like a smaller vehicle and don't want to have undue impact and because I've listened to arguments like this before. But I was offroad last weekend. I move sheets of plywood a couple of times per year and either need to beg my wife to help or sit around waiting at Home Depot for the truck to be available. I have stuff to move for robotics comps that I'm always barely able to get there by cramming it in my car + begging a couple of parents to help out. Dealing with the bike rack is hard. Ordering things like Ikea furniture for delivery is expensive, latent, and not exactly low impact iself. Yah, 90% of the time I need a car, but 10% of the time I need a little more and there's enough friction around making it work that I would pull the trigger on something like this. On the other hand I don't think I could say "frequently" to any of those questions.
    - jakelazaroff 1y ago
      Two thoughts here: 1. An ideal society would be structured such that you wouldn't need to buy a truck you use as a car 90% of the time. But that society doesn't exist here, and you shouldn't feel guilty about living by incentives you didn't create. Maybe you do need a truck! 2. But we're not talking about people who compromise to make 10% of their trips more convenient; we're talking about people who never use their truck for truck things. A car would be better choice for them 100% of the time, yet they still drive a truck.
      - mlyle 1y ago
        One of my points was re: #2: I am not sure how I would answer on that survey. It really depends on fine details of how the questions were worded. For sure towing would be "rarely". But "personal hauling"? I am not sure.

Aurornis 1y ago

There’s a quote from some consulting firm that goes around claiming 2/3 of truck drivers don’t “put something in the bed” more than once a year. It’s a laughable claim for anyone who thinks about it for more than a second. The way they usually get to these numbers is by redefining what “hauling a load” means to be something extremely heavy or for loose fill materials. So if someone routinely hauls a couple mountain bikes in the bed of their truck or gets a few 2x4s from the lumber yard it wouldn’t count.

cosmic_cheese 1y ago
> So if someone routinely hauls a couple mountain bikes in the bed of their truck or gets a few 2x4s from the lumber yard it wouldn’t count. Even if that’s the case, the truck owners doing this probably don’t need a full size truck. A 90s-era small truck or maybe even a kei truck would suffice, and yet more often than not the trucks in question are the likes of F-150s.
- wyre 1y ago
  Agreed, unfortunately small trucks are increasingly harder and harder to find. A 90s truck also won’t have the amenities that a modern truck has. I think if they are just hauling mountain bikes, they could get a small hitch installed and purchase a high-quality bike rack. A roof rack can carry 2x4s very well.
  - scott_w 1y ago
    Or do what I do and drive an MPV, which are bloody excellent for getting my TT bike in with its excessively angled aero bars!
ricardobeat 1y ago
The company in question has been doing their survey for two decades. It’s a private data set, but has been reported on by multiple serious news outlets which will have their own data scientists looking over the data, e.g. Axios: https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history You can also verify the data is coming from real drivers, by searching for “New Vehicle Experience Study” and seeing all the posts from users who receive the survey and think it’s some kind of scam.