4 ms·

>Just use EC2 and basic primitives which are easy to migrate (ie S3, SES) If that's your whole infra you really shouldn't be on AWS in the first place.

by S0y 1y ago

adastra22 1y ago
A bit ironic when that entire stack was invented at AWS.
- NewJazz 1y ago
  VMs were invented at AWS? Blob storage?
  - adastra22 1y ago
    EC2? S3? Yes. That kind of "cloud" tech was invented at AWS. Nothing like the ec2 API existed before Amazon. It's what made AWS big. Maybe my graybeard is showing, but I remember when that kind of pre-containerization cloud provisioned VM resources was a radically new idea.
    - cnst 1y ago
      FreeBSD jail predates Amazon Web Services, and so does SWsoft's Virtuozzo that was subsequently open-sourced as OpenVZ. For Amazon SES, DJB's qmail made it possible to send a ridiculous amount of subscription emails very efficiently, too. I've been using a VPS powered by Virtuozzo since like 2002 or 2003, how is EC2 all that different? Just the API? Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuozzo_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuozzo_(company), SWsoft was founded in 1997, and publicly released Virtuozzo in 2000. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_jail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_jail, FreeBSD jail was committed into FreeBSD in 1999 "after some period of production use by a hosting provider", and released with FreeBSD 4.0 in 2000. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qmail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qmail, qmail was released in 1998. Today, lots of AWS services are basically just re-packaged OSS packages.
      - adastra22 1y ago
        EC2 services aren't tied to a machine, just a region. The details of what machine to instantiate a VM on, or the details of moving a VM between hosts, attaching remote drives over IP, or handling the networking that makes this all possible, that was worked out by Amazon to host Amazon.com, which they then resold as a service under the banner AWS. The pieces were there, but not a unified "cloud" architecture. This is smelling like the classic "Dropbox isn't anything new" HN comment. TODAY amazon services are just re-packaged OSS packages, yes. That wasn't the case before.
        supriyo-biswas 1y ago
        This is such a blatant rewrite of history; as an example live migrations were a thing in Xen: https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/5/html/virtualization/chap-virtualization-xen_live_migration https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_....
        whstl 1y ago
        Quoting myself from another post: A lot of people in this industry have near-zero operations knowledge that doesn't involve AWS, and it's frightening. They also have near-zero knowledge on the history of the field.
        adastra22 1y ago
        I didn’t realize Xen migrations were made available from a uniform web API accessible from remote tools and fully abstracted/automated at the cluster level. You are focused on the details and missing entirely the point of my post.
        cnst 1y ago
        What do you think was the purpose of FreeBSD jail, Virtuozzo and Xen? https://web.archive.org/web/20011204195446/http://www.sw-soft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/ https://web.archive.org/web/20011204195446/http://www.sw-sof... https://web.archive.org/web/20011224040032/http://www.sw-soft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/basics/ https://web.archive.org/web/20011224040032/http://www.sw-sof... That's 2001, and Virtuozzo was already advertised supporting migrations. OpenVZ remained super popular for at least like 10 years after it was open-sourced as OpenVZ in 2005, well into 2015, at least. Primarily because it allowed over-provisioning of RAM and all the other resources, which wasn't possible in other environments without the memory balloon drivers and other issues. I imagine the major reason OpenVZ has declined in popularity is because nowadays memory is cheap enough that over-provisioning of RAM isn't that much of a selling point, and not being able to run your own kernel with processor-guaranteed virtualisation, is deemed too old-fashioned and less secure for true multitenancy than Linux-KVM, which has basically taken over the entire market, from both Xen and OpenVZ, and VMware, and everybody else. Even Amazon EC2 is based on Linux-KVM now, whereas previously it was based on Xen.

>Just use EC2 and basic primitives which are easy to migrate (ie S3, SES) If that's your whole infra you really shouldn't be on AWS in the first place.

by S0y 1y ago

>Just use EC2 and basic primitives which are easy to migrate (ie S3, SES) If that's your whole infra you really shouldn't be on AWS in the first place.

adastra22 1y ago

A bit ironic when that entire stack was invented at AWS.

NewJazz 1y ago
VMs were invented at AWS? Blob storage?
- adastra22 1y ago
  EC2? S3? Yes. That kind of "cloud" tech was invented at AWS. Nothing like the ec2 API existed before Amazon. It's what made AWS big. Maybe my graybeard is showing, but I remember when that kind of pre-containerization cloud provisioned VM resources was a radically new idea.
  - cnst 1y ago
    FreeBSD jail predates Amazon Web Services, and so does SWsoft's Virtuozzo that was subsequently open-sourced as OpenVZ. For Amazon SES, DJB's qmail made it possible to send a ridiculous amount of subscription emails very efficiently, too. I've been using a VPS powered by Virtuozzo since like 2002 or 2003, how is EC2 all that different? Just the API? Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuozzo_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuozzo_(company), SWsoft was founded in 1997, and publicly released Virtuozzo in 2000. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_jail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_jail, FreeBSD jail was committed into FreeBSD in 1999 "after some period of production use by a hosting provider", and released with FreeBSD 4.0 in 2000. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qmail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qmail, qmail was released in 1998. Today, lots of AWS services are basically just re-packaged OSS packages.
    - adastra22 1y ago
      EC2 services aren't tied to a machine, just a region. The details of what machine to instantiate a VM on, or the details of moving a VM between hosts, attaching remote drives over IP, or handling the networking that makes this all possible, that was worked out by Amazon to host Amazon.com, which they then resold as a service under the banner AWS. The pieces were there, but not a unified "cloud" architecture. This is smelling like the classic "Dropbox isn't anything new" HN comment. TODAY amazon services are just re-packaged OSS packages, yes. That wasn't the case before.
      - supriyo-biswas 1y ago
        This is such a blatant rewrite of history; as an example live migrations were a thing in Xen: https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/5/html/virtualization/chap-virtualization-xen_live_migration https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_....
        whstl 1y ago
        Quoting myself from another post: A lot of people in this industry have near-zero operations knowledge that doesn't involve AWS, and it's frightening. They also have near-zero knowledge on the history of the field.
        adastra22 1y ago
        I didn’t realize Xen migrations were made available from a uniform web API accessible from remote tools and fully abstracted/automated at the cluster level. You are focused on the details and missing entirely the point of my post.
        cnst 1y ago
        What do you think was the purpose of FreeBSD jail, Virtuozzo and Xen? https://web.archive.org/web/20011204195446/http://www.sw-soft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/ https://web.archive.org/web/20011204195446/http://www.sw-sof... https://web.archive.org/web/20011224040032/http://www.sw-soft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/basics/ https://web.archive.org/web/20011224040032/http://www.sw-sof... That's 2001, and Virtuozzo was already advertised supporting migrations. OpenVZ remained super popular for at least like 10 years after it was open-sourced as OpenVZ in 2005, well into 2015, at least. Primarily because it allowed over-provisioning of RAM and all the other resources, which wasn't possible in other environments without the memory balloon drivers and other issues. I imagine the major reason OpenVZ has declined in popularity is because nowadays memory is cheap enough that over-provisioning of RAM isn't that much of a selling point, and not being able to run your own kernel with processor-guaranteed virtualisation, is deemed too old-fashioned and less secure for true multitenancy than Linux-KVM, which has basically taken over the entire market, from both Xen and OpenVZ, and VMware, and everybody else. Even Amazon EC2 is based on Linux-KVM now, whereas previously it was based on Xen.